JJT: Tony Romo won't be threatened if Dallas Cowboys take QB in first round

Clay_Allison

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Then you missed the entire point. The commentary was whether a QB who was the starter should help train a new QB that was brought on board. Some felt the starter had no obligation to do so as well as they felt the team belonged to them. My comment was that if they felt that way then they were wrong because they are an employee and if the employer wants then to work with the new guy then the QB would be wrong not to do so. He is an employee and as long as he takes money from the employer he serves at their pleasure. If he doesn't feel he can then he should leave.

The real question at hand is does any employee have the right to take a wage but refuse to comply with the employers demands. I think no. If you cannot comply then leave but to continue to take the money and refuse is essentially stealing. Now tell me how you justify refusing to comply with the employers wishes because you disagree with him/her. Then tell me how it is okay to continue this position and continue to be paid.
Because there is such a thing as a job description. Players play, coaches coach, players don't have to coach. Simple as that.
 

L.T. Fan

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Because there is such a thing as a job description. Players play, coaches coach, players don't have to coach. Simple as that.
I am afraid we are not on the same page. Your statement is incorrect in the first place. A lot of players work with their team mates. Its not an isolated circumstance, The discussion for me was about players who might refuse to help teammates. Their role is as an employee and if asked they would be wrong to refuse, They get paid to play but they are also to serve at the pleasure of the employer. Now where does slavery come in again?
 

Clay_Allison

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I am afraid we are not on the same page. Your statement is incorrect in the first place. A lot of players work with their team mates. Its not an isolated circumstance, The discussion for me was about players who might refuse to help teammates. Their role is as an employee and if asked they would be wrong to refuse, They get paid to play but they are also to serve at the pleasure of the employer. Now where does slavery come in again?
I'm not comparing the NFL to slavery, I'm comparing your attitude that employees are always wrong and employers are always right to someone who would prefer slavery or slave like conditions for employees.

If a team came out and said they expected their players to do the coaches' jobs for them I'd bet the union would have something to say about that. NFL contracts are pretty clear on what they expect the players to do and I bet there's no "other duties as assigned" catch all clause. They are no more required to coach than they are to wash the owner's car.
 

L.T. Fan

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I'm not comparing the NFL to slavery, I'm comparing your attitude that employees are always wrong and employers are always right to someone who would prefer slavery or slave like conditions for employees.

If a team came out and said they expected their players to do the coaches' jobs for them I'd bet the union would have something to say about that. NFL contracts are pretty clear on what they expect the players to do and I bet there's no "other duties as assigned" catch all clause. They are no more required to coach than they are to wash the owner's car.
I didn't say employees are always wrong. I said if they refuse their employers wishes and take their money they are wrong. Keep the facts straight. Your response examples are simply over the top.
 

Clay_Allison

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I didn't say employees are always wrong. I said if they refuse their employers wishes and take their money they are wrong. Keep the facts straight. Your response examples are simply over the top.
You still apparently don't believe in contracts or job descriptions and think employees are subject to employer's "wishes" regardless of any agreement to the contrary and that's completely wrong. There are plenty of things employees cannot be asked to do because it falls outside of their qualifications. You can't make a school janitor teach a class, he's not qualified for it, it's not his job. You can't make a security guard mop floors.

If you hired me as a plumber and told me to do electrical work I'd tell you that you should have hired an electrician.
 

L.T. Fan

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You still apparently don't believe in contracts or job descriptions and think employees are subject to employer's "wishes" regardless of any agreement to the contrary and that's completely wrong. There are plenty of things employees cannot be asked to do because it falls outside of their qualifications. You can't make a school janitor teach a class, he's not qualified for it, it's not his job. You can't make a security guard mop floors.

If you hired me as a plumber and told me to do electrical work I'd tell you that you should have hired an electrician.
Then I would fire your ass. Rarely do plumbers have employment contracts. In fact few employees have contracts. I doubt a player's contract says he is barred from giving advice to a team mate. Your assumptions that I don't believe in contracts is again erroneous. I am talking about a very small matter and you are evoking slavery issues. Don't you think that is extreme?
 

Clay_Allison

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Then I would fire your ass. Rarely do plumbers have employment contracts. In fact few employees have contracts. I doubt a player's contract says he is barred from giving advice to a team mate. Your assumptions that I don't believe in contracts is again erroneous. I am talking about a very small matter and you are evoking slavery issues. Don't you think that is extreme?
You realize that if I wasn't an electrician and you ordered me to do something I wasn't licensed for you'd be breaking the law and ordering me to break the law? So yeah. That's your attitude in a nutshell. I'll fire your ass if you don't do something illegal and irresponsible and unsafe. That's why I made the snarky comment about the end of slavery bothering you, because you can no longer get away with ordering people to electrocute themselves or burn down the building because they don't know what they are doing. Which is probably what would happen if I tried to do electrical work for you, because I'm not an electrician.
 

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You still apparently don't believe in contracts or job descriptions
Do you think NFL players recieve a job description? I mean as an employer I agree with you to an extent, I can't make an employee do anything I want. But at the same time if I ask an employee to take out the trash they shouldn't come back with the response, "it's not in my job description." On the other hand I'd never ask a legal assistant to give legal advice because that's against the law.
 

1bigfan13

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Even if he did have an issue with the Cowboys drafting a QB in the 1st round I'd still go with either Goff or Wentz regardless of Romo's feelings.

The focus should always be about doing what's best for the franchise not what's best for a player.

When Romo breaks another bone this year I'd prefer to have a young stud to turn to rather than the washed up scrubs we ran through here last year.
 

Clay_Allison

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Do you think NFL players recieve a job description? I mean as an employer I agree with you to an extent, I can't make an employee do anything I want. But at the same time if I ask an employee to take out the trash they shouldn't come back with the response, "it's not in my job description." On the other hand I'd never ask a legal assistant to give legal advice because that's against the law.
Since what they are told to do is spelled out so explicitly in their contracts, workout programs, weight requirements, meetings, etc. I bet the union would throw a fit if they were asked to do jobs that fell utterly outside their responsibilities.
 

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You realize that if I wasn't an electrician and you ordered me to do something I wasn't licensed for you'd be breaking the law and ordering me to break the law? So yeah. That's your attitude in a nutshell. I'll fire your ass if you don't do something illegal and irresponsible and unsafe. That's why I made the snarky comment about the end of slavery bothering you, because you can no longer get away with ordering people to electrocute themselves or burn down the building because they don't know what they are doing. Which is probably what would happen if I tried to do electrical work for you, because I'm not an electrician.
All that about a comment about asking one employee to give helpful advise to another. Really. They are both quarterbacks.
 
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Clay_Allison

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All that about a comment about asking one employee to give helpful advise to another. Really. They are both quarterbacks.
I think it goes beyond occasional helpful advice. Asking someone to be a "mentor" is asking them to give up the time they need to prepare in order to do their own job in order to coach someone to do theirs. I have no problem with requiring people to be civil and courteous to their coworkers, that's a basic requirement for working with others. Diverting them from their job duties to make them train their replacement, however, is always going to go counter to what people will put up with.
 

L.T. Fan

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I think it goes beyond occasional helpful advice. Asking someone to be a "mentor" is asking them to give up the time they need to prepare in order to do their own job in order to coach someone to do theirs. I have no problem with requiring people to be civil and courteous to their coworkers, that's a basic requirement for working with others. Diverting them from their job duties to make them train their replacement, however, is always going to go counter to what people will put up with.
12 year pros on their way out already know the ropes and it isn't like they have a lot of preparation to learn the system and will have time to be a mentor. It's a very common practice in many professions but obviously you cannot consider it as part your responsibility even at the request of your employer. Not a good testimony. I have trained dozens of trainees and I always thought it was an expected duty.
 
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Clay_Allison

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I just said. They don't require all the prep time you seem to think would need. They have time to train people. Learning playbook and systems is already second nature.
Then why do starting QBs get 90% of snaps in practice if they don't need them?
 

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Then why do starting QBs get 90% of snaps in practice if they don't need them?
You are acting like mentoring in the NFL has never happened before. This practice has been around since before I was born and continues today. It may rub you the wrong way but it's not uncommon.
 

Clay_Allison

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You are acting like mentoring in the NFL has never happened before. This practice has been around since before I was born and continues today. It may rub you the wrong way but it's not uncommon.
Maybe with a veteran backup, not with an entrenched started. Bledsoe didn't "mentor" Romo, Favre didn't mentor Rodgers, Montana didn't mentor Young, I really doubt Manning did much mentoring to Osweiler or if Brady has had much to do with Garoppolo. There's not much history of successful starters trying to make themselves expendable to the team so that they can be cut once the cheaper option is ready.
 

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Maybe with a veteran backup, not with an entrenched started. Bledsoe didn't "mentor" Romo, Favre didn't mentor Rodgers, Montana didn't mentor Young, I really doubt Manning did much mentoring to Osweiler or if Brady has had much to do with Garoppolo. There's not much history of successful starters trying to make themselves expendable to the team so that they can be cut once the cheaper option is ready.
You can find exceptions but it's still a common practice for veterans to help team mates.
 

Genghis Khan

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Maybe with a veteran backup, not with an entrenched started. Bledsoe didn't "mentor" Romo, Favre didn't mentor Rodgers, Montana didn't mentor Young, I really doubt Manning did much mentoring to Osweiler or if Brady has had much to do with Garoppolo. There's not much history of successful starters trying to make themselves expendable to the team so that they can be cut once the cheaper option is ready.
Vinny mentored Romo.
 
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