Abortion... yeah or nah?

townsend · Feb 28, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
No need to cry to me about CPS, I have as much experience with them as anyone. And I'm the one representing the parents usually. The problem with CPS and the law in that area is that its not bright lines. It's a bunch of wishy washy shit. They take kids out of a home for minor reasons and them leave kids in another home who are being horribly mistreated. The judge basically takes the case workers recommendation as gold. Caseworkers have as much of an agenda as anyone.

The nice thing about abortions is that it's much easier to draw a bright line. I don't think anyone should be having abortions outsode of the first trimester unless the mothers life is at grave danger. And I'm ok puttung that in a doctor's hands to decide. At that point malpractice suits would keep them in line.

I would also add that if a baby is literally brain dead or has had such complications that it's not expected to live once delivered, or is actually a stillborn that abortions should be an option in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters.

fortsbest · Feb 28, 2016

Ok, here is a chart showing when most ladies get them in:

And here is information on people who think late term abortions are ok from http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/06/truth-late-term-abortions/:

In a recent Gallup poll, only 14% of respondents said they believe that third trimester abortions should be legal, with only 27% saying that second trimester abortions should be legal.
That's 14% who don't want restriction on when an abortion can happen.

BipolarFuk · Mar 3, 2016

I have mixed feelings on abortion. I feel it is a horrific thing to do, especially if not very early in pregnancy.

But where do women's rights end and a fetus' begin? When is a lump of cells a human baby? I don't know.

Jiggyfly · Mar 3, 2016

fortsbest said:
Ok, here is a chart showing when most ladies get them in:

View attachment 359

And here is information on people who think late term abortions are ok from http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/06/truth-late-term-abortions/:

In a recent Gallup poll, only 14% of respondents said they believe that third trimester abortions should be legal, with only 27% saying that second trimester abortions should be legal.
That's 14% who don't want restriction on when an abortion can happen.

Are those 3rd trimester abortions due to the womans health being at risk?

And wanting something to not be illegal is not the same as not wanting any restrictions, you can still have restrictions and something be legal, like alcohol or cigarettes.

fortsbest · Mar 3, 2016

Alright sir. Enough with this. You can say this means this or that means that, but simply put, if you don't want abortion to be illegal after the third trimester begins then you are in favor of having it anytime. Maybe a portion of the 14% want it legal if it is for medical reasons, but there will be a portion that want it regardless the reason. I can't poll every single person a get an exact number for you. I gave you the information you asked for. It says some people want legal abortions when you know the babies can hear,think, dream and feel. If the mother died and the baby was removed it could survive. That means it is alive. And that my friend is wrong.
Bipo, I sympathize with your position and I know many feel the same way. Not sure how anyone human could direct you in that matter sir.

Jiggyfly · Mar 4, 2016

fortsbest said:
Alright sir. Enough with this. You can say this means this or that means that, but simply put, if you don't want abortion to be illegal after the third trimester begins then you are in favor of having it anytime. Maybe a portion of the 14% want it legal if it is for medical reasons, but there will be a portion that want it regardless the reason. I can't poll every single person a get an exact number for you. I gave you the information you asked for. It says some people want legal abortions when you know the babies can hear,think, dream and feel. If the mother died and the baby was removed it could survive. That means it is alive. And that my friend is wrong.
Bipo, I sympathize with your position and I know many feel the same way. Not sure how anyone human could direct you in that matter sir.

The information you gave said none of this, it said that they did not want late term abortions to be illegal.

As has been said before most late term abortions are for stillborn and babies that have no chance to live outside the womb and are a danger to the mother.

I really don't know what point you are trying to make even IF there are people advocating for no restrictions on abortion it is a very low number and they carry no weight.

fortsbest · Mar 5, 2016

http://www.texasrighttolife.com/about/1332/Abortion-advocates-try-to-normalize-lateterm-abortion
https://lozierinstitute.org/the-reality-of-late-term-abortion-procedures/On May 13, 2015 the second anniversary of the murder convictions of abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell for killing babies at his “house of horrors” abortion clinic in Philadelphia, the House of Representatives is set to vote on a 20 week abortion ban.

Pro-life leaders say that at 20 weeks the unborn child can feel pain, but is not the sole reason for banning all abortions.

A chart published by the CDC for 39 states that reported abortions by gestation (520,304 of the 730,322 abortions reported in 2011) show that in those 39 states:

335,748 abortions were performed at less than 8 weeks
139,775 abortions were performed at 9-13 weeks gestation
17,952 abortions were performed at 14-15 weeks gestation
9,795 abortions were performed at 16-17 weeks gestation
9,709 abortions were performed at 18-20 weeks gestation
7,325 abortions were performed at 21 weeks gestation or greater.

It is a small percentage, but combined with the data in the second article, it isn't all for medical necessity and...The fact that there are people out there that advocate for late term abortions is still creepy and in my opinion wrong. And as to your last statement, there is no if as to whether or not there are people that support abortions at any time and surveys say that number is as much as 20% so no, it isn't very low. Lastly, whenever there is a law proposed to ban abortions beyond 20 weeks, nearly ALL the pro-abortion folk come out en mass.

BipolarFuk · Jun 8, 2016

Cotton · Jun 8, 2016

Did he actually say that, or is this just another stupid meme?

Genghis Khan · Jun 9, 2016

Iamtdg said:
Did he actually say that, or is this just another stupid meme?

He said it 1990 (!) and has since apologized for it.

But, you know, (R) and stuff.

I'm sure no democrats have ever said anything stupid, embarrassing and/or offensive in their distant past.

In other words, he actually said that, AND it's another stupid meme.

townsend · Jun 14, 2016

pdom said:
Harder to obtain a gun or get an abortion?

In red states? Abortion, by far. There's only a handful of places to get abortions in the south any more. This is why the NRA fights regulation so much, if someone who's anti abortion is permitted to regulate something, they can effectively outlaw it.

Blue states I think it depends. It's probably easier to get an abortion in California.

Jiggyfly · Jul 30, 2016

Is this an abortion?

Numbers 5:16-28New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

16 Then the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord; 17 the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman’s hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. 19 Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, “If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you,” 21 —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—“the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; 22 now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!” And the woman shall say, “Amen. Amen.”

23 Then the priest shall put these curses in writing, and wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. 25 The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand, and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering, as its memorial portion, and turn it into smoke on the altar, and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. 27 When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. 28 But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children.

L.T. Fan · Jul 30, 2016

Where is there any idea that the woman is pregnant? It seems to be a curse to make an unfaithful wife barren.

Genghis Khan · Jul 30, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
Where is there any idea that the woman is pregnant? It seems to be a curse to make an unfaithful wife barren.

Agreed.

townsend · Jul 30, 2016

The Old Testament literally advocated murdering children, so I would say it's less pro life than any existing political party.

L.T. Fan · Jul 31, 2016

townsend said:
The Old Testament literally advocated murdering children, so I would say it's less pro life than any existing political party.

You make it sound like it was a routine commandment. If you were to have researched or studied the old testament you would have understood that there were rare circumstances during the course of the children of Israel's attempts to return the promised land.

There are references however, that God was angered at the practice of sacrificing children via Baal worship.

townsend · Jul 31, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
You make it sound like it was a routine commandment. If you were to have researched or studied the old testament you would have understood that there were rare circumstances during the course of the children of Israel's attempts to return the promised land.

There are references however, that God was angered at the practice of sacrificing children via Baal worship.

Interestingly the edict to kill defiant children in Leviticus was the first instance (and as far as I know the only instance) where the Talmud says that the punishment is too severe.

Jiggyfly · Jul 31, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
Where is there any idea that the woman is pregnant? It seems to be a curse to make an unfaithful wife barren.

And if she was pregnant?

And even if not what about her ability to have children ever again?

L.T. Fan · Jul 31, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
And if she was pregnant?

And even if not what about her ability to have children ever again?

If she was pregnant the process probably would be different. This isn't a what if scriptural dissertation. It is what it is.

L.T. Fan · Jul 31, 2016

townsend said:
Interestingly the edict to kill defiant children in Leviticus was the first instance (and as far as I know the only instance) where the Talmud says that the punishment is too severe.

The Talmud isn't the law that Moses penned. It is an ongoing collection of writings by various Rabbis etc. The writings about the Children of Israel returning to the land was many years before any Talmud editions.

Abortion... yeah or nah?

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