Hill: Linehan and Marinelli Extended

Cujo

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IMO, Marinelli gets shit on far more than he deserves. Hell, people have been predicting that we would have all time bad defenses the last two years. Then both years, the defense has played decent. Championship defense? No. But far from what people have thought. So what is the reason for that? The shit we have trotted out there or the coaching? I'd like to see what Marinelli could do if we actually gave him some good players to use. He's had Sean Lee and... Who? I can't think of anybody else that hasn't been labeled as anywhere from JAG status to downright shit.

Couldn't agree more. Who is out there that would be able to get the results he has?
 

boozeman

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He had some pretty awesome defenses with the Bears. Hell his defense one year led the NFL in takeaways and interceptions. I'd say that 2012 Bears defense was pretty awesome. Of course that year he had Julius Peppers getting him double digit sacks. Of course he had Charles Tillman back then causing a ridiculous amount of fumbles. He had Tim Jennings snagging like 9 INTs.

Oddly enough, Stephen Paea was the starting NT on that defense...
And even those awesome defenses had a weak link, a pet turd that he thought he could shine that cost them. In Chicago, that was Chris Conte.
 

Cowboysrock55

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And even those awesome defenses had a weak link, a pet turd that he thought he could shine that cost them. In Chicago, that was Chris Conte.
Yeah, I'm still baffled at the fact that Chris Conte is still starting in the NFL. The guy is a total turd but he has managed to con the Bucs into the same thing.
 

UncleMilti

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And he has had a part in the talent. Either it is arrogance or a desire for excuse driven job security, but he has made a living coaching up that crap. There is no reason he should not have been screaming bloody murder for more talent. Instead he prides himself on getting overachievers.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hence the original :picard
 

ravidubey

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Hence the original :picard
Marinelli is a double-edged sword. He coaches well, but at the same time communicates a fucked-up talent model to management and scouts based on his love of no-talent overachievers.

Collins was a step in the right direction we can hopefully build on.
 

Jiggyfly

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So he had no part in the Sharif Floyd fuck up? And rationalizing his lack of quick twitch and the meeting room was too full anyways? Alrighty then. This is a guy who fought to have a turd like Nick Hayden start on his defense for three years. He is not Rob Ryan dogshit bad, but this idea that the organization (and probably him too) that think he can coach anything up has hurt.
Sharif Floyd fuck up?

I think he nailed it concerning Floyd, This guy has worse sack numbers Crawford.
 

Jiggyfly

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He kind of reminds me of they way Marty Schottenheimer could get any team to the playoffs but never any further. Give Marinelli a bunch of JAGs and he'll find a way to get a mid-league performance out of them. Give him a bunch of Pro Bowlers and he would probably also find a way to get a mid-league performance out of them. As long as our offense is dominant it might be enough, but it will always be frustrating.
Marinelli had great defenses in Chicago.
 

Cowboysrock55

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In his defense, he hasnt played much, but he definitely hasnt been a bum when healthy
I think how much has played or hasn't played speaks volumes to how "good" of a pick he has been. I'll take Maliek Collins over Floyd easily.
 

ravidubey

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Sharif Floyd fuck up?

I think he nailed it concerning Floyd, This guy has worse sack numbers Crawford.
I agree regarding Floyd specifically, but the "not quick twitch" comment explaining why they didn't draft Floyd was telling.

It led me to believe based on Marinelli's recommendation they reserve the 1st round for 3T DTs only.

I believe a talented 1T or NT can be just as impactful if not more. Guys like Calais Campbell or Casey Hampton are major difference-makers who make the entire defense better, but it seems Marinelli has a bullshit blind spot to this type of player.

If you've got a rare pairing like Booger McFarland and Warren Sapp, that's one thing, but for most teams you need some power to center your defense around.
 

Jiggyfly

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In his defense, he hasnt played much, but he definitely hasnt been a bum when healthy
He has played in 43 career games out of 48, he has averaged 3 sacks a year.

Crawford has not been a bum when healthy either but everybody wants to get rid of him.
 

Jiggyfly

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I agree regarding Floyd specifically, but the "not quick twitch" comment explaining why they didn't draft Floyd was telling.

It led me to believe based on Marinelli's recommendation they reserve the 1st round for 3T DTs only.

I believe a talented 1T or NT can be just as impactful if not more. Guys like Calais Campbell or Casey Hampton are major difference-makers who make the entire defense better, but it seems Marinelli has a bullshit blind spot to this type of player.

If you've got a rare pairing like Booger McFarland and Warren Sapp, that's one thing, but for most teams you need some power to center your defense around.
Calais Campbell is not a 1 or a NT so I have no idea how he fits in the discussion.

I don't have a clue if he believes in drafting a 1tech in the 1st round but he did draft McFarland in the 1st.

I guess you missed me advocating for McDowell being in the mix at 28.
 

ravidubey

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Calais Campbell is not a 1 or a NT so I have no idea how he fits in the discussion.

I don't have a clue if he believes in drafting a 1tech in the 1st round but he did draft McFarland in the 1st.

I guess you missed me advocating for McDowell being in the mix at 28.
My point is I doubt he'd have drafted Campbell who doesn't fit the classic mold of a 3T or traditional 4-3 RDE.

McFarland is the perfect case in point. He fits Marinelli's the 300 lb or less quick twitch mold and has the first round talent to succeed.

Most couldn't with two other sub 300 pounders on either side. But in TB, with Sapp and Rice it was possible.

You need 1st round talent everywhere to make Martinelli's perfect model work. That's completely unreasonable.

Better to have a Rice and a Campbell and then spread the remaining talent around the defense.

A Y2K Tampa talented defense is way too rare a thing to strive for.
 
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And he has had a part in the talent. Either it is arrogance or a desire for excuse driven job security, but he has made a living coaching up that crap. There is no reason he should not have been screaming bloody murder for more talent. Instead he prides himself on getting overachievers.
Well this will be the year he should get his fill of defensive talent.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You need 1st round talent everywhere to make Martinelli's perfect model work. That's completely unreasonable.

Better to have a Rice and a Campbell and then spread the remaining talent around the defense.

A Y2K Tampa talented defense is way too rare a thing to strive for.
Sometimes you pull the most random shit out of your ass.
 

ravidubey

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Sometimes you pull the most random shit out of your ass.
How's it not relevant when we're talking about Marinelli's DL talent model to not discuss the ideal he's striving for?

In the free agency era, the "rush men" undersized model only works when you've got three top-fifteen picks up front. Talent makes up for the net lack of power. Either that or you attack in waves, and you can't build DL's that deep anymore.

I don't think the model works without spending the high picks, and we can't dedicate that many resources on the DL given what we've spent on the OL.

Bottom line Marinelli's model isn't a fit for us (or maybe anyone).
 
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