2015 Season | Super Bowl L | Carolina Panthers vs Denver Bronces | 2/7/2016

townsend

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You're not being objective at all. Man... Please see your brother regarding "lying."
I'm not my brother. We are two separate people with two different argument styles. I use facts. Like Garrett's mediocre record with great personnel and his abysmal record without Romo. His poor clock management, his poor team discipline, and his poor game planning are all objective truths that can be proven with 5 to 9 years worth of reliable data.
 

Cotton

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1 and fucking 11 and idiots still defend him. Unbelievable.
 

boozeman

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I'm sure all the teams who watched his lackadaisical style end in collapse care.
And Garrett’s firm leadership is assured to end up any different? Results matter. Phillips got as much empirical results as Garrett has done as a head coach. Just because he might be a little better at brainwashing, still does not mean he can have success.
 

Clay_Allison

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This just in, Garrett is a better coach than Buddy Ryan and Wade Phillips because coaching a dominant defense to the SB is not an indicator of being good at coaching football.
 

Smitty

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Yeah, because Wade is like a coordinator now and stuff. He also just coached his unit to one of the most impressive defensive playoff runs I have ever witnessed. So, yeah, I'm talking about that.
And I acknowledged it was a dominant performance and a dominant season on his part, but that I wouldn't hire him myself because his long term effect is cancerous. What's the confusion?
 

Rev

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Yeah, because Wade is like a coordinator now and stuff. He also just coached his unit to one of the most impressive defensive playoff runs I have ever witnessed. So, yeah, I'm talking about that.
Not to mention the fact that you started this off comparing both as coordinators. Just too hard to keep up I guess.
 

Cotton

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And I acknowledged it was a dominant performance and a dominant season on his part, but that I wouldn't hire him myself because his long term effect is cancerous. What's the confusion?
As a coordinator, where has he been that he has been "cancerous"? You being an idiot is where the confusion lies.
 

Cotton

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Not to mention the fact that you started this off comparing both as coordinators. Just too hard to keep up I guess.
No doubt.
 

Smitty

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I'm not my brother. We are two separate people with two different argument styles. I use facts. Like Garrett's mediocre record with great personnel and his abysmal record without Romo. His poor clock management, his poor team discipline, and his poor game planning are all objective truths that can be proven with 5 to 9 years worth of reliable data.
No, those latter things are not "objective truths." Perhaps you need to look up what "objective truth" is. What you mean to say is that the people on this forum agree by general consensus that he has struggled in those areas. I for one completely disagree that his team discipline is poor and I also challenge any assessment that his playcalling and game planning is as bad as it is often portrayed. And since those things are pretty much the opposite of quantifiable they are decidedly not objective or measurable.

And completely at the whim of your biased presentation.
 

Jiggyfly

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Denver's defense is one for the ages, they basically dragged an offense that could barely do anything to a title, beating some very tough opponents along the way. Their defense has no real weaknesses with very good interior pass-rushers who are also solid against the run, probably the best edge rushing combo in the league, an athletic/versatile LB who can play the run and pass in Trevathan, 3 CB's who are very good in man coverage and competent safeties. They basically have Pro Bowlers/All Pro caliber players everywhere except for at safety.

Free agency and age will eat away at their defense over the next 2-3 years, and I doubt they will be able to replicate performances like this with what looks to be a below average offense next year, but for right now, that defense was just as impressive this year as Seattle's was 2 years ago.

As a complete aside, can anybody give me one good reason why Tony Dungy is in the HOF but Jimmy Johnson isn't?
I think I would be targeting Trevathan in FA. he will cost but It should not be Franchise type money but his all around play could

Take a defense fromm good to great.

I think I would be open to copying what Elway did and spend greatly on adding the pieces to this D that would take them from medocre to great.

1 tech
LB
1 more Safety
1 very good corner.

It's time to go all in since we have cost control on offense for a couple of years and Romo for 2 more max.

I would bring in Fairley on a short term deal to upgrade the 1 and draft a young guy.

I would bring back Hardy on another incentive laden deal.

I would offer Trevathan good money to be the centerpiece of the D and let Mclain walk.

I would see what the price of Zach Brown is and think of letting Lee go.

I would be trying to add 2 veteran CB's from this group

Sean Smith
Trumaine Johnson
Casey Hayward
Leon Hall
Jeremy Lane.

Mid-level types that could compete for a starting spot and add veteran depth, I would let Carr walk and try to bring Claiborne back on an incentive type contract.

For safety I am looking at Weddle or Gipson I think either would work well with Jones.

I would draft a good young DT early and add some young DB depth in the draft as well as a RB.
 

Cotton

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Cotton

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No, those latter things are not "objective truths." Perhaps you need to look up what "objective truth" is. What you mean to say is that the people on this forum agree by general consensus that he has struggled in those areas. I for one completely disagree that his team discipline is poor and I also challenge any assessment that his playcalling and game planning is as bad as it is often portrayed. And since those things are pretty much the opposite of quantifiable they are decidedly not objective or measurable.

And completely at the whim of your biased presentation.
Then why else did we go 1-11?
 

Simpleton

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I think I would be targeting Trevathan in FA. he will cost but It should not be Franchise type money but his all around play could

Take a defense fromm good to great.

I think I would be open to copying what Elway did and spend greatly on adding the pieces to this D that would take them from medocre to great.

1 tech
LB
1 more Safety
1 very good corner.

It's time to go all in since we have cost control on offense for a couple of years and Romo for 2 more max.

I would bring in Fairley on a short term deal to upgrade the 1 and draft a young guy.

I would bring back Hardy on another incentive laden deal.

I would offer Trevathan good money to be the centerpiece of the D and let Mclain walk.

I would see what the price of Zach Brown is and think of letting Lee go.

I would be trying to add 2 veteran CB's from this group

Sean Smith
Trumaine Johnson
Casey Hayward
Leon Hall
Jeremy Lane.

Mid-level types that could compete for a starting spot and add veteran depth, I would let Carr walk and try to bring Claiborne back on an incentive type contract.

For safety I am looking at Weddle or Gipson I think either would work well with Jones.

I would draft a good young DT early and add some young DB depth in the draft as well as a RB.
Yea, I mean I posted some long thing a month or so ago saying we can build for the future with a QB at 4 while also shooting for a Super Bowl now by mortgaging the future to an extent in free agency with a window of trying to win in the next 2-3 years. I mentioned Denver as the example, when they signed Ware, Talib and Ward to big deals to go along with young pieces like Miller, Harris, Jackson, Wolfe, etc.

We have some young pieces in Lawrence, Crawford, Jones, maybe Gregory, on top of Lee/Scandrick, if we go out and aggressively pursue 2-3 guys who could start on defense, many of which you named, we could certainly have a defense worthy of a title with a healthy offense. Our defense doesn't need to be Denver's because our offense will be better.

I also don't think Trevathan will break the bank, he will cost, probably about 7-8 a year, but I don't see the guy getting a Kuechly or even Wagner deal. He's probably a pipe dream either way, but guys like Zach Brown and Demario Davis need to be targets.
 
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Rev

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I haven't seen a lot of talk but I thought the two fumble recoveries by Travathon (sp?) were huge. Killed a drive and extended one. Just huge momentum affecting recoveries.
 

Smitty

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And Garrett’s firm leadership is assured to end up any different? Results matter. Phillips got as much empirical results as Garrett has done as a head coach. Just because he might be a little better at brainwashing, still does not mean he can have success.
Didn't say Garrett was gonna have success, just that Wade's record as head coach makes him untouchable in my book and not entitled to "show his ass" to anyone. He should be happy that he won as a coordinator.... good for him, that is his role in the league and where he belongs. He is not a guy I'd ever hire as coordinator because I think his style is the antithetical to how I'd mold my team but obviously he has shown he can have short term success as a coordinator and he should be proud about putting together an all-time playoff run from his group.

The rest of this "who is a better head coach when you look at their coordinator records" is just distractions from the anti-Garrett crowd because they want more ammo to say he sucks. See?! Even WADE won a Super Bowl!

No one ever said Garrett was a superior coordinator. I'll take him as a head coach over Wade because it's not a guarantee that he'll collapse though. Even if Garrett is second worst, Wade is THE worst.

Yes... Slight hyperbole. Just saying Wade is in the all time bottom tier with Kotite, Campo, etc, as head coach. Don't think Garrett is at that level.
 

Smitty

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Then why else did we go 1-11?
We lost our starting QB, our starting WR missed half the games and played the other half somewhat injured and with substantial lessened effective, we were missing a couple key defensive pieces, and I think Garrett and Linehan underestimated their lack of a reliable running attack after Murray was gone.

It it was backsliding no doubt but with those circumstances most times you get a mulligan. Which is why he is getting one.

If if he goes 8-8 with Romo and reasonable health next year I'll be looking for his replacement with you and you won't hear me complaining at all.
 

Jiggyfly

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Yea, I mean I posted some long thing a month or so ago saying we can build for the future with a QB at 4 while also shooting for a Super Bowl now by mortgaging the future to an extent in free agency with a window of trying to win in the next 2-3 years. I mentioned Denver as the example, when they signed Ware, Talib and Ward to big deals to go along with young pieces like Miller, Harris, Jackson, Wolfe, etc.

We have some young pieces in Lawrence, Crawford, Jones, maybe Gregory, on top of Lee/Scandrick, if we go out and aggressively pursue 2-3 guys who could start on defense, many of which you named, we could certainly have a defense worthy of a title with a healthy offense. Our defense doesn't need to be Denver's because our offense will be better.

I also don't think Trevathan will break the bank, he will cost, probably about 7-8 a year, but I don't see the guy getting a Kuechly or even Wagner deal. He's probably a pipe dream either way, but guys like Zach Brown and Demario Davis need to be targets.
Yeah I saw your post but I just wanted to spin off that and look at concentrating on defense.

I agree about Levathan and that's why I would like to target him because I don't think he breaks the bank, I would also be interested in Jackson but I think he gets big money.

It looks like Denver is in pretty good position cap wise so it would be hard to get Levathan.
 

Clay_Allison

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Didn't say Garrett was gonna have success, just that Wade's record as head coach makes him untouchable in my book and not entitled to "show his ass" to anyone. He should be happy that he won as a coordinator.... good for him, that is his role in the league and where he belongs. He is not a guy I'd ever hire as coordinator because I think his style is the antithetical to how I'd mold my team but obviously he has shown he can have short term success as a coordinator and he should be proud about putting together an all-time playoff run from his group.

The rest of this "who is a better head coach when you look at their coordinator records" is just distractions from the anti-Garrett crowd because they want more ammo to say he sucks. See?! Even WADE won a Super Bowl!

No one ever said Garrett was a superior coordinator. I'll take him as a head coach over Wade because it's not a guarantee that he'll collapse though. Even if Garrett is second worst, Wade is THE worst.

Yes... Slight hyperbole. Just saying Wade is in the all time bottom tier with Kotite, Campo, etc, as head coach. Don't think Garrett is at that level.
Garrett still managed a worse record than Campo with far more talent. Campo never had a QB as good as Weeden or Cassel. Garrett is only better in your mind because you want him to be.
 
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