2015-16 Championship Game Gameday Chatter | 1/24/2016

boozeman said:

More proof you don't need to spend a top 10 pick on a CB?

Ted Ginn whipping Patrick Peterson.

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Patrick Peterson is a beast, but the way Cam is gunning the ball this year it doesn't matter.

#1 pick > #3 pick

BipolarFan said:

I want a Cam Newton.

Is Carson Wentz that athletic?

Probably not.

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Neither is Goff or Lynch, although Wentz and Lynch are both decent at getting out of the pocket and using their legs to get first downs when needed.

GShock said:

As an aside, we do not have a defense that could hit Brady (or any QB) 19 times over the course of a game, nor do we have a QB that could take 19 hits over the course of a game.

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The most Brady was hit all year in a game was 12, so most teams don't have a defense that can hit him 19 times.

Belichick is obviously one of the better coaches in the league, but having Brady for 15 years makes him look better than he is. Their best teams were in the early 2000's when they had a great defense to go along with Brady. Even then, all three SB wins were 4 pts or less and came down to a FG most times. Last year was a dumb Seahawk INT at the goal line.

Something to be said about being in contention about every year, but I put that on Brady more than Belichick. If they hadn't lucked into him in the 6th round Belichick and the Pats history would be far different. Also don't know if it's arrogance or stupidity why they constantly refuse to give Brady any real weapons on offense. Outside of Gronk, no real WR's since signing Moss in '07. No real RB's. Won last year with Blount who they signed off the waiver wire during the season. This year he had a season ending injury, the OL was decimated, receivers hurt and not 100% and Brady still had then on the verge of another SB. Thankfully Bill's idiotic decisions to go for it on 4th down twice in the 4th trailing by 8 rather than kick a FG cost them another trip.

BipolarFan said:

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VA Cowboy said:

Neither is Goff or Lynch, although Wentz and Lynch are both decent at getting out of the pocket and using their legs to get first downs when needed.

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Wentz is actually pretty similar to Newton. Newton is a little bigger, probably a little faster and has a bit stronger of an arm, but I think Wentz is comparable in all facets, especially as a runner where he was very physical in college. I am curious to see what Wentz measures in at and runs at the combine, Newton ran a 4.6 at 6-5, 248, I'm guessing Wentz checks in between 6-4 and 6-5, about 230-235 and runs about a 4.65.

I also see some of the same weaknesses in Newton's game that I see in Wentz's; inconsistent footwork in the pocket, the propensity to lock in on WR's, etc., but Newton makes up for locking onto WR's with having a huge arm and being to fit it in to tight spaces, and I think Wentz may be the same way.

I think this will be another Super Bowl like Den/Sea.

Carp said:

I think this will be another Super Bowl like Den/Sea.

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Yep. Carolina is, what, 22-2 in their last 24 games? Something like that. They're just playing great. I bet Denver will really struggle to even get first downs.

VA Cowboy said:

Also don't know if it's arrogance or stupidity why they constantly refuse to give Brady any real weapons on offense. Outside of Gronk, no real WR's since signing Moss in '07. No real RB's. Won last year with Blount who they signed off the waiver wire during the season. This year he had a season ending injury, the OL was decimated, receivers hurt and not 100% and Brady still had then on the verge of another SB. Thankfully Bill's idiotic decisions to go for it on 4th down twice in the 4th trailing by 8 rather than kick a FG cost them another trip.

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This is something that I've never understood, and I think Belichick should be rightly criticized for it.

Since about 2010 up until now, I don't think anyone would put the Patriots' rosters in a top 4 or even top 5 list in any of those respective seasons. At no point have they had a receiver in that span that could change the game on any given play.

At no point have they had a RB that made anyone in the NFL say, "I wish we had that guy".

They haven't had any real elite defensive talent either. They haven't signed or produced a great pass rusher, a playmaking LB, or a DB who was considered a ballhawk that could change the momentum for them. Save one season of Revis, I don't think they've had any defensive player in that span that was considered one of the very best at his position.

I don't know what the reason for that is. I can only guess that they've had so much success with a bunch of average guys and nobodies that Belichick never felt like he needed special talents. I know that this formula has for the most part been successful for them, but as a result of his reluctance to go after elite players, I believe it has cost the Patriots more championships and an opportunity to record the greatest run in NFL history.

If I were a Patriots fan, I'd actually feel cheated......like the team's potential wasn't maximized. I would imagine that Pats fans will look back at this era much like we look back at the 90's as a golden opportunity missed, albeit for different reasons.

I wouldn't expect them to try and win free agency every year, but sheesh. A team of that magnitude should constantly be in the running for the best players in the league. If the Patriots had just a couple more playmakers on their teams over the last 5 years or so, I think they win at least 2 more Super Bowls, and maybe even 3. I think a lack of elite talent cost them the 2nd SB vs the Giants and appearances in Super Bowls 41, 48, and 50.

I hate Brady and I hate the Patriots, so I'm glad they've been so negligent in the talent acquisition aspect of the team. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize how much better they could've been and how much more they could've won had they been more willing to sign difference-makers.

Genghis Khan said:

Suck it, 1bigfan!

Love,
Peyton

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I'm happy to be wrong about that one.

Simpleton said:

Wentz is actually pretty similar to Newton. Newton is a little bigger, probably a little faster and has a bit stronger of an arm, but I think Wentz is comparable in all facets, especially as a runner where he was very physical in college. I am curious to see what Wentz measures in at and runs at the combine, Newton ran a 4.6 at 6-5, 248, I'm guessing Wentz checks in between 6-4 and 6-5, about 230-235 and runs about a 4.65.

I also see some of the same weaknesses in Newton's game that I see in Wentz's; inconsistent footwork in the pocket, the propensity to lock in on WR's, etc., but Newton makes up for locking onto WR's with having a huge arm and being to fit it in to tight spaces, and I think Wentz may be the same way.

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Wentz checked in at 6-5 and 2/8, 233 lbs at the Senior Bowl, more or less exactly what I thought. He's actually a little taller than Newton was at the Combine but 15 lbs lighter.

Simpleton said:

Wentz checked in at 6-5 and 2/8, 233 lbs at the Senior Bowl, more or less exactly what I thought. He's actually a little taller than Newton was at the Combine but 15 lbs lighter.

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Yeah pretty ideal size in my opinion.

Simpleton said:

Wentz checked in at 6-5 and 2/8, 233 lbs at the Senior Bowl, more or less exactly what I thought. He's actually a little taller than Newton was at the Combine but 15 lbs lighter.

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Yeah, and he'll be a couple tenths slower. Let's not pretend this guy is the next Cam Newton.

BipolarFan said:

Yeah, and he'll be a couple tenths slower. Let's not pretend this guy is the next Cam Newton.

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If he switched places with Newton I don't think there'd be much difference, obviously not as a rookie compared to Newton with 5 years of experience, but from the start of their careers. I'd also be shocked if he ran much slower than the low 4.7's, compared to Newton's 4.6.

BipolarFan said:

Yeah, and he'll be a couple tenths slower. Let's not pretend this guy is the next Cam Newton.

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Before this season Cam Newton wasn't even the next Cam Newton. There was a goddamn debate this offseason about who is better, Cam Newton or Tannehill. So lets not pretend that Cam Newton has been the greatest thing since sliced bread for very long.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Before this season Cam Newton wasn't even the next Cam Newton. There was a goddamn debate this offseason about who is better, Cam Newton or Tannehill. So lets not pretend that Cam Newton has been the greatest thing since sliced bread for very long.

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Yea agreed, this season kind of just has a feel of everything coming together perfectly for them.

Last year they were 7-8-1 for God's sake, although they did have a 1st round bye in 2013, lost their first playoff game though.

Statistically Newton has always been right below 60% completion %, just like this season, his YPA ranges between 7 and 8, solid but not elite either, and this year he's on the higher end of that. Part of his lower completion % is because he takes shots down the field with his arm, but still. The last 2 seasons coming into this one he has hovered around 60% with a YPA in the low 7's and a TD:INT ratio if 42:25 with a couple of rushing TD's, not bad but those aren't HOF stats either.

He's definitely made a jump this year but I still feel like alot of it has to do with it just being the natural evolution of a team that knows who they are and how they win. Everything is working with great synergy there between the defense getting turnovers, the running game where Newton and the RB's feed off each other and then the passing game converting on big plays.

Newton has made big plays all year, I don't want to take anything away from him, but I do wonder how much of this season (which is similar statistically in almost all areas to past seasons but fluky in terms of his total TD's) is the function of everything coming together for a team within a system that they've been running for years, both offensively and defensively.

We'll see what the future holds but I do not think that this Panther team is the result of a future HOF QB blossoming and carrying a team all the way, it's more about a good to very good QB maturing within a system that has nurtured him by accentuating his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses for years, along with having a total team concept around him.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Before this season Cam Newton wasn't even the next Cam Newton. There was a goddamn debate this offseason about who is better, Cam Newton or Tannehill. So lets not pretend that Cam Newton has been the greatest thing since sliced bread for very long.

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Who was having this debate.?

Cam had the best QB rookie year in NFL history and had led a team to the playoffs twice.

I did not even like Cam coming out but he has been an above average QB since drafted.

Cam was a much better prospect than Wentz and has proved it since drafted.

Jiggyfly said:

Who was having this debate.?

Cam had the best QB rookie year in NFL history and had led a team to the playoffs twice.

I did not even like Cam coming out but he has been an above average QB since drafted.

Cam was a much better prospect than Wentz and has proved it since drafted.

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The people on this message board.

Simpleton said:

Yea agreed, this season kind of just has a feel of everything coming together perfectly for them.

Last year they were 7-8-1 for God's sake, although they did have a 1st round bye in 2013, lost their first playoff game though.

Statistically Newton has always been right below 60% completion %, just like this season, his YPA ranges between 7 and 8, solid but not elite either, and this year he's on the higher end of that. Part of his lower completion % is because he takes shots down the field with his arm, but still. The last 2 seasons coming into this one he has hovered around 60% with a YPA in the low 7's and a TD:INT ratio if 42:25 with a couple of rushing TD's, not bad but those aren't HOF stats either.

He's definitely made a jump this year but I still feel like alot of it has to do with it just being the natural evolution of a team that knows who they are and how they win. Everything is working with great synergy there between the defense getting turnovers, the running game where Newton and the RB's feed off each other and then the passing game converting on big plays.

Newton has made big plays all year, I don't want to take anything away from him, but I do wonder how much of this season (which is similar statistically in almost all areas to past seasons but fluky in terms of his total TD's) is the function of everything coming together for a team within a system that they've been running for years, both offensively and defensively.

We'll see what the future holds but I do not think that this Panther team is the result of a future HOF QB blossoming and carrying a team all the way, it's more about a good to very good QB maturing within a system that has nurtured him by accentuating his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses for years, along with having a total team concept around him.

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His numbers compare very well to Roethlisberger over his 1st 5 years.

He also has never had top flight skill position talent or a great o-line, he is having a all time great year while having garbage at WR, to blossom under these circumstances is astounding.

And let's not forget it's only his 5th year.