Religion thread...

skidadl · Jan 15, 2016

Quote Originally Posted by Texas Ace View Post
While I agree for the most part, I do think there is such a thing as having too much money like a Joel Osteen.

I consider myself to be a maturing Christian. I began going to church with the intention of becoming a Christian about 18 months ago. I've come a long way, but I still have a long way to go.

The reason I say that is because I don't pretend to have it all figured out and I may even be wrong or not completely understand what is and isn't acceptable in the eyes of the lord. So forgive me if I'm being ignorant here, but I don't care for the megachurch or for Joel Osteen claiming to be this God-fearing man who just wants to help people and spread the gospel.

Again, I don't have a problem with wealthy ministers. They have to earn a living too, and there isn't a more righteous thing that one can do for a living than to spread God's word and help others accept God. I think that's a great, and they too deserve to be compensated for that if that is what they are doing on a full time basis. But if you're truly in it for the lord, or your heart is pure, shouldn't you at some point stop accepting this outrageous amounts of money?

Once Joel Osteen became a millionaire, shouldn't he have stopped accepting lots of money or at least stop pocketing all of it to go and speak at places? I mean, you're doing it for God and all, aren't you? If you're doing it in the name of Jesus and to save people, then shouldn't you be doing that from the heart and without the need to be compensated? Especially if you've already got more money than you'll be able to spend?

Let's say someone wants to fly him out so he can speak. I don't think it's wrong to ask for the traveling expenses to be covered and for a donation to be made, but have it made to organizations or efforts that are proven to help people.

Instead of paying me 50K or whatever, how about I take 5 or 10K, and the other 40 you send to our efforts in Haiti, in Africa, in the Middle East where those of Christian faith are executed.

That to me is how business should now be conducted by the Osteen's now that they are so well off. But that's not how they're doing it, is it? Whatever service Joel Osteen provides, he and he alone is compensated for it and it goes straight into his bank account. That to me is wrong and I just don't agree with it.

Am I wrong for thinking this way?

I don't remember how I originally responded to this post or if I did...I'd say that your viewpoint is pretty compelling.

I guess I just don't take him all that serious as a real leader so I don't really know how to fill strongly about it.

Cotton · Jan 15, 2016

So, no one is going to take the hook?

Let me toss the line again...

A lot of people lean on religion to cope with 1) not knowing what is really out there and 2) scared shitless of what happens when you die.

People like Joel Osteen and shit tons of people like him feed off of that and profit.

NoDak · Jan 15, 2016

Iamtdg said:
So, no one is going to take the hook?

Let me toss the line again...

A lot of people lean on religion to cope with 1) not knowing what is really out there and 2) scared shitless of what happens when you die.

People like Joel Osteen and shit tons of people like him feed off of that and profit.

I'm not interested in your bait.

But I am curious as to how you know why people "lean on religion". Speaking only for myself, I believe in God and neither of those things would fit me. And frankly, I don't think I'm trying to 'cope with' anything with my beliefs.

skidadl · Jan 15, 2016

Well there you go. You could take the most believing guys (or ones willing or care to share their beliefs) and you get a wide range in opinion on one topic. That's about the way it is in real life.

L.T. Fan · Jan 16, 2016

Iamtdg said:
So, no one is going to take the hook?

Let me toss the line again...

A lot of people lean on religion to cope with 1) not knowing what is really out there and 2) scared shitless of what happens when you die.

People like Joel Osteen and shit tons of people like him feed off of that and profit.

So where is the line of separation with the ministry of Osteen and every other pastor or minister of the Christian faith? Are all that receive their livelihood as preachers and ministers feeding off people's fears? Are they hucksters and frauds as well? Is the line defined by how much money they make and if so what is the amount? That is after all what this is about isn't it?

Texas Ace · Jan 16, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
So where is the line of separation with the ministry of Osteen and every other pastor or minister of the Christian faith? Are all that receive their livelihood as preachers and ministers feeding off people's fears? Are they hucksters and frauds as well? Is the line defined by how much money they make and if so what is the amount? That is after all what this is about isn't it?

As I said before, there's nothing wrong with pastors being compensated for what they do not is there anything wrong with them being compensated well for it.

Why can't a man of God be wealthy if a lawyer, accountant, or systems engineer can?

My only issue, as I stated above, is that there is a point where it becomes too much and a person who is pure of heart and truly wants to spread the gospel should no longer be pocketing large amounts of money for this line of work.

L.T. Fan · Jan 16, 2016

Texas Ace said:
As I said before, there's nothing wrong with pastors being compensated for what they do not is there anything wrong with them being compensated well for it.

Why can't a man of God be wealthy if a lawyer, accountant, or systems engineer can?

My only issue, as I stated above, is that there is a point where it becomes too much and a person who is pure of heart and truly wants to spread the gospel should no longer be pocketing large amounts of money for this line of work.

I can't say as a pure Christian ethical matter I disagree but does anyone adhere to those same principals when it comes to actual practiced living? Who sets the standards for what, how much and when is acceptable for the rules of conduct. If you compare the Pope and his lifestyle to televangelist, the Pope wins hands down. It's a very subjective matter . The difficulty I actually have is how some pronounce their personal thoughts as being the standard for all. I think this is pretty much where all this began this time so I am full circle.

Cotton · Jan 16, 2016

NoDak said:
I'm not interested in your bait.

But I am curious as to how you know why people "lean on religion". Speaking only for myself, I believe in God and neither of those things would fit me. And frankly, I don't think I'm trying to 'cope with' anything with my beliefs.

I never once said all religious people. Let that be clear.

Cotton · Jan 16, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
So where is the line of separation with the ministry of Osteen and every other pastor or minister of the Christian faith? Are all that receive their livelihood as preachers and ministers feeding off people's fears? Are they hucksters and frauds as well? Is the line defined by how much money they make and if so what is the amount? That is after all what this is about isn't it?

I'd say the difference would be the motivation behind why they do what they do. Osteen might have a heart as pure as snow, but it sure seems hard to believe given the lack of humility shown by his belongings.

NoDak · Jan 16, 2016

Iamtdg said:
I never once said all religious people. Let that be clear.

No, but you did say a lot of people. I assume by that you meant that to be most religious people around the world. Because if you only meant it to be a lot of the people you have actually met... Well, then that wouldn't be much of an argument, now would it? :art

Cotton · Jan 16, 2016

NoDak said:
No, but you did say a lot of people. I assume by that you meant that to be most religious people around the world. Because if you only meant it to be a lot of the people you have actually met... Well, then that wouldn't be much of an argument, now would it?

All I have to work off of is the sample size that is the people I have met. But, I can extend an opinion to tons of people I haven't given that sample size.

Texas Ace · Jan 16, 2016

NoDak said:
I'm not interested in your bait.

But I am curious as to how you know why people "lean on religion". Speaking only for myself, I believe in God and neither of those things would fit me. And frankly, I don't think I'm trying to 'cope with' anything with my beliefs.

Agreed.

My faith is not driven out of fear of where I'll end up when I die nor by any insecurities I might have.

I personally don't know anyone who is either.

NoDak · Jan 16, 2016

Iamtdg said:
All I have to work off of is the sample size that is the people I have met. But, I can extend an opinion to tons of people I haven't given that sample size.

Oh. Well in that case, a lot of the people around the world are truly good people that use religion to better themselves and to help people. I have met a lot of people like this, so I can extend this opinion to tons of people I haven't, given that sample size.

Ok, I'm already bored with this. I'm out.

Cotton · Jan 16, 2016

NoDak said:
Oh. Well in that case, a lot of the people around the world are truly good people that use religion to better themselves and to help people. I have met a lot of people like this, so I can extend this opinion to tons of people I haven't, given that sample size.

Ok, I'm already bored with this. I'm out.

I would absolutely agree with this.

L.T. Fan · Jan 16, 2016

You know in all this nothing was said about all the hospitals and universities that have been founded by the Christain movement. Not to mention the personal sacrifices made by individuals who leave their homes and establish missions and care facilities. I know this is about one individual who is financially wealthy by his ministry but does anyone really know how much he feeds to similar efforts? That's it for me as well.

Jiggyfly · Jan 20, 2016

skidadl said:
Joel makes people feel good, tells them God loves them and sell a crapton of books.

I personally don't care for his theology but he seems pretty harmless.

I don't see anyone angry at McDonalds or the myriad of other product/entertainment companies out there pushing their product to poor people or whatever.

McDonalds is not pushing a Jesus burger or Holy fries that I know of.

skidadl · Jan 20, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
McDonalds is not pushing a Jesus burger or Holy fries that I know of.

They arent hated for selling good feelings either. Neither i Disney. I don't see much difference.

Jiggyfly · Jan 20, 2016

skidadl said:
They arent hated for selling good feelings either. Neither I Disney. I don't see much difference.

They unlike Osteen are not using religion as the hook of why you should buy their product.

If you don't see the difference you are choosing to not to.

skidadl · Jan 20, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
They unlike Osteen are not using religion as the hook of why you should buy their product.

If you don't see the difference you are choosing to not to.

Olsteen is a lot like many preachers. He has one main doctrine that he majors on and hammers it.

1. God loves you
2. the grace of God is for today
3. God wants you to be happy
4. Feel good about your day
5. Feel good about yourself

basically that is his message. Depression is an epidemic. People need encouragement. That's why so many flock to him...because he has an encouraging message. Personally I think he's missing more of the gospel in his message and prefer more theology but I honestly don't think he does much harm. Lots of people could use a smile on their face and a pep in their step.

Someone recently told me that one of his books made a huge impact on his life. Good for him and others that have had the same experience.

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