2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Cowboysrock55

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Democrats vote with their heart a bit more than republicans. I think the modern iteration of the party has a more universal ideology. Compared to the hodgepodge of republicans. I give Sanders about a 15% chance to upset. I think his grassroots populist platform might mobilize all the liberals that already rejected Hillary in 08.
There is no way a wacko socialist is going to win the Democratic Vote. Although if he did it would probably pave the way for a Republican to win. Bernie is about as far out there as any candidate.
 

Clay_Allison

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He was apparently very gracious leaving the Whitehouse, breaking with tradition of being a total dick to the next guy. I think he took his catastrophic presidency very personally. Unlike Jimmy Highlander Carter who's just super proud of himself.

I think Barack's last years in office should set him apart. Unlike W and Clinton and Almighty Reagan, Obama seems like the first two term president to be gaining momentum as his time in office is nearly up.
Obama's been all gridlock and executive orders the last 3 years. I can't see what momentum he's gaining by lecturing about gun control he won't get and complaining about everyone not doing what he says.
 

townsend

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Obama's been all gridlock and executive orders the last 3 years. I can't see what momentum he's gaining by lecturing about gun control he won't get and complaining about everyone not doing what he says.
We just passed an law repealing parts of "no child left behind" that's been in the works for years, got a budget deal signed, took part in the most ambitious climate agreement of all time, and a multinational nuclear deal was achieved with Iran.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Obama's been all gridlock and executive orders the last 3 years. I can't see what momentum he's gaining by lecturing about gun control he won't get and complaining about everyone not doing what he says.
Yeah, there is no momentum. I guess his approval rating didn't continue to plummet like it had been.
 

Clay_Allison

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We just passed an law repealing parts of "no child left behind" that's been in the works for years, got a budget deal signed, took part in the most ambitious climate agreement of all time, and a multinational nuclear deal was achieved with Iran.
I agree it was necessary to give up on sanctions, but since he didn't get anything Iran will actually abide by I'm not impressed. I'd have to know how much of NCLB was gone and whether anything was actually going to get better in educations before I crowed about that either. Meanwhile his normalization of relations with Cuba somehow hasn't allowed us to lift the goddamned embargo. It's just like everything he does, makes a nice bullet point and a shitty article once you find out how little was actually done.
 

townsend

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I agree it was necessary to give up on sanctions, but since he didn't get anything Iran will actually abide by I'm not impressed. I'd have to know how much of NCLB was gone and whether anything was actually going to get better in educations before I crowed about that either. Meanwhile his normalization of relations with Cuba somehow hasn't allowed us to lift the goddamned embargo. It's just like everything he does, makes a nice bullet point and a shitty article once you find out how little was actually done.
It's an interesting circular logic we have about the Iran deal. If the assumption is that they'll never abide by any deals, what would constitute a better deal? The best we can hope for is that inspectors and the threat of sanctions returning is enough to leverage, just like any deal we've ever reached with any nation.

I'm not sure what Cuba and the U.S. need to sort out before the embargo ends but it seems funny to me that the first administration to try normalizing relations with a Cuba for the first time in 60 years is not working gawdamned fast enough.
 

townsend

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Comparing that progress to Reagan's, Clinton's or Bush's late term blunders is night and day.
 

Clay_Allison

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It's an interesting circular logic we have about the Iran deal. If the assumption is that they'll never abide by any deals, what would constitute a better deal? The best we can hope for is that inspectors and the threat of sanctions returning is enough to leverage, just like any deal we've ever reached with any nation.

I'm not sure what Cuba and the U.S. need to sort out before the embargo ends but it seems funny to me that the first administration to try normalizing relations with a Cuba for the first time in 60 years is not working gawdamned fast enough.
Until something real happens on one of those fronts it's all lip service. Giving an "E" for effort is more trust than I'm putting in any politician.
 

Jiggyfly

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I agree it was necessary to give up on sanctions, but since he didn't get anything Iran will actually abide by I'm not impressed. I'd have to know how much of NCLB was gone and whether anything was actually going to get better in educations before I crowed about that either. Meanwhile his normalization of relations with Cuba somehow hasn't allowed us to lift the goddamned embargo. It's just like everything he does, makes a nice bullet point and a shitty article once you find out how little was actually done.
That is the job of congress and he has asked them to do it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/president-congress-lift-embargo-cuba-sources/story?id=28358404
"Our shift in Cuba policy has the potential to end a legacy of mistrust in our hemisphere; removes a phony excuse for restrictions in Cuba; stands up for democratic values; and extends the hand of friendship to the Cuban people. And this year, Congress should begin the work of ending the embargo," he said.

Tonight's call to action comes after the president has taken all of the steps that the executive branch can to normalize relations with the Communist nation but only Congress can lift the longstanding trade embargo.
 

townsend

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And unlike Clinton, Obama has shown an absolute inability to work with a Republican Congress. Like I said, his philosophy is gridlock and executive orders.
budget just passed, education bill just passed. Now that Paul Ryan is wrangling the tea baggers things have run much more smoothly.
 

Clay_Allison

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budget just passed, education bill just passed. Now that Paul Ryan is wrangling the tea baggers things have run much more smoothly.
managing to sign a budget and not shut down the government, awesome. We'll see if anything comes of repealing "parts" of NCLB.
 

Jiggyfly

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And unlike Clinton, Obama has shown an absolute inability to work with a Republican Congress. Like I said, his philosophy is gridlock and executive orders.
What does that have to do with your question about the embargo?

And the Republicans have no stake in the gridlock?

When you have the Republican party saying it's their mission to make Obama a 1 term president before he is 30 days in and then going against policies they have been pushing for years because Obama advocates them. I think you need to question there philosophy just as much or more.
 

Clay_Allison

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What does that have to do with your question about the embargo?

And the Republicans have no stake in the gridlock?

When you have the Republican party saying it's their mission to make Obama a 1 term president before he is 30 days in and then going against policies they have been pushing for years because Obama advocates them. I think you need to question there philosophy just as much or more.
So... Newt Gingrich and the Republicans who worked with Clinton loved Bill so much they just wanted to help him out every step of the way? Or did Bill compromise and trade things they wanted for things he wanted?
 

Jiggyfly

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So... Newt Gingrich and the Republicans who worked with Clinton loved Bill so much they just wanted to help him out every step of the way? Or did Bill compromise and trade things they wanted for things he wanted?
Did those republicans compromise with Clinton as well?

Ok this is pointless if you want to believe all of the gridlock lays at Obama's feet go ahead because the facts do not back that up.
 
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townsend

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I've been pointing to Bill's record dealing with a "hostile" congress. That's the standard I'm holding Obama to.
First of all your comparing apples to oranges. The 94 mid term winners showed up with goals. Tea party republicans are just satisfied on being contrarians. Other than repealing his (admittedly broken) ACA there was nothing the the Republicans wanted, they just sat back and earned political capital by not doing anything.

That's entirely different from Gingrich, who had legislation that he wanted passed. You can thank that willingness to concede for the current American prison population too, since a good part of our current broken criminal justice system was minted during that term.

I also it seems unfair to focus on Clintons highlight reel, this started with a conversation about late term momentum. Like the kind a President without a major scandal might have. Clinton had been reduced to a punchline by this point in his career. Between slinging his jizz all over the whitehouse, committing perjury, and bombing aspirin factories, Clinton needed 10 years of nostalgia Goggles to forget how much of a piece of shit he had proven to be.
 

Clay_Allison

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First of all your comparing apples to oranges. The 94 mid term winners showed up with goals. Tea party republicans are just satisfied on being contrarians. Other than repealing his (admittedly broken) ACA there was nothing the the Republicans wanted, they just sat back and earned political capital by not doing anything.

That's entirely different from Gingrich, who had legislation that he wanted passed. You can thank that willingness to concede for the current American prison population too, since a good part of our current broken criminal justice system was minted during that term.

I also it seems unfair to focus on Clintons highlight reel, this started with a conversation about late term momentum. Like the kind a President without a major scandal might have. Clinton had been reduced to a punchline by this point in his career. Between slinging his jizz all over the whitehouse, committing perjury, and bombing aspirin factories, Clinton needed 10 years of nostalgia Goggles to forget how much of a piece of shit he had proven to be.
Obama's burn-all-bridges approach to forcing ACA down the country's throat was what led to a congress full of bitter contrarians. Creating that entrenched opposition was something he bears a lot of responsibility for. He's governed like a one-term senator with no friends on the hill and no way to get anything done without burning all of his good will in the rest of the government to the ground.

Maybe some of the stuff he's done in 2015 will turn out great in 2016. Assuming it will is like giving him the Nobel Peace Prize while he was still in two wars.
 

townsend

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Obama's burn-all-bridges approach to forcing ACA down the country's throat was what led to a congress full of bitter contrarians. Creating that entrenched opposition was something he bears a lot of responsibility for. He's governed like a one-term senator with no friends on the hill and no way to get anything done without burning all of his good will in the rest of the government to the ground.
This is a fair point, nuclear tactics in legislation probably was partly responsible for the tea party surge in the first place. The legislation absolutely not being worth all the resentment it created.

Maybe some of the stuff he's done in 2015 will turn out great in 2016. Assuming it will is like giving him the Nobel Peace Prize while he was still in two wars.
I'm never felt he deserved the peace prize (the recipients rarely do.) but the fact that he was handed a country in the middle of an all out nose dive, are measurably, definitely better off than we were in 08 seems like something he should receive credit for.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, never wanted him, never voted for him, but any objective assessment. Measured against other real presidents, and not Bill Pullman from Independence Day, ranks him out as a good president.
 
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