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Jiggyfly

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Ooooookay. Where to begin?

Let's start with whether I watch the games. You know full well that I watch the Eagles more than you do. Probably much more. Much to my chagrin.

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe marry his hid behind the lines so much, in part because he is slow to get to the line? Its funny how Sproles and Mathews Don't seem to be hit behind the line as much.

I am NOT saying that scheme isn't a factor. But what I am saying is, scheme alone cannot account for this big of a drop off. It just isn't the case that Murray is so one dimensional that he can't play and be at least effective in this scheme. He isn't just not as good, he is completely ineffective.

It wasn't that long ago that he was a five yards per carry runner. Last year he was in the upper 4s. Suddenly he is in the mid threes I believe. I'm sorry but that's more than just scheme. That's more than just offensive line.

Next. Randy moss. Not germane. He's a WR and therefore QB dependent. He can't throw the ball to himself. He's also had personality issues that don't apply to Murray. Further, WRs don't take the physical pounding RBs do, and thus are generally still able to be effective later in their careers. It's not an apt comparison.

Next. Funny you bring up Larry Johnson, because he's the perfect demonstration of why we should avoid Murray. You're actually wrong about Johnson: he topped 400 carries in his career exactly once. Around the same age as Murray (26 or 27 I think?). Johnson also had only one other season above even 300 carries (325 or so I think), the year prior to 400. His workload was actually pretty similar to Murray's and the spike came at a similar time as Murray.

In his 300 something carry season Johnson averaged 5 ypc. In the following season, Johnson had 400 carries and a still good 4 something ypc. The following season Johnson was toast and never came close to recovering. At about the same age as Murray now. Johnson's career actually mirrors Murray's pretty closely.

To be clear, it's not JUST the carries that concern me with Murray, it's that combined with his age and the fact that we are seeing a huge drop in production. We'd be fools to ignore all that.

Next. When has Miller been better than Murray? THIS YEAR. And he's a couple years younger, and he's got a lot less mileage.

Why in the world would you go with a seriously declining RB at 29 over a lightly used 26 year old in his prime? It's a no brainer.

It's not that Murray is definitely toast. But he probably is. All of the warning signs are there.Why take that risk, considering Murray's age?

If you don't like Miller, fair enough. But that doesn't mean you turn to Murray. Trust me, I want a bell cow. I think it is important for this team. But we have to face facts. Murray is not that guy anymore. Why wouldn't we just move on to younger, Better options?

Even if you don't factory in the huge amount of carries from last year, Running backs across-the-board decline right around Murray's age. Smart teams move on. Especially when you can see it happening right in front of your face.
Add to that, you could see the carries adding up at the end of last year.

He was definitley a step slower over the last 4 games.
 

Texas Ace

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Ooooookay. Where to begin?

Let's start with whether I watch the games. You know full well that I watch the Eagles more than you do. Probably much more. Much to my chagrin.

Did it ever occur to you, that maybe marry his hid behind the lines so much, in part because he is slow to get to the line? Its funny how Sproles and Mathews Don't seem to be hit behind the line as much.

I am NOT saying that scheme isn't a factor. But what I am saying is, scheme alone cannot account for this big of a drop off. It just isn't the case that Murray is so one dimensional that he can't play and be at least effective in this scheme. He isn't just not as good, he is completely ineffective.

It wasn't that long ago that he was a five yards per carry runner. Last year he was in the upper 4s. Suddenly he is in the mid threes I believe. I'm sorry but that's more than just scheme. That's more than just offensive line.

Next. Randy moss. Not germane. He's a WR and therefore QB dependent. He can't throw the ball to himself. He's also had personality issues that don't apply to Murray. Further, WRs don't take the physical pounding RBs do, and thus are generally still able to be effective later in their careers. It's not an apt comparison.

Next. Funny you bring up Larry Johnson, because he's the perfect demonstration of why we should avoid Murray. You're actually wrong about Johnson: he topped 400 carries in his career exactly once. Around the same age as Murray (26 or 27 I think?). Johnson also had only one other season above even 300 carries (325 or so I think), the year prior to 400. His workload was actually pretty similar to Murray's and the spike came at a similar time as Murray.

In his 300 something carry season Johnson averaged 5 ypc. In the following season, Johnson had 400 carries and a still good 4 something ypc. The following season Johnson was toast and never came close to recovering. At about the same age as Murray now. Johnson's career actually mirrors Murray's pretty closely.

To be clear, it's not JUST the carries that concern me with Murray, it's that combined with his age and the fact that we are seeing a huge drop in production. We'd be fools to ignore all that.

Next. When has Miller been better than Murray? THIS YEAR. And he's a couple years younger, and he's got a lot less mileage.

Why in the world would you go with a seriously declining RB at 29 over a lightly used 26 year old in his prime? It's a no brainer.

It's not that Murray is definitely toast. But he probably is. All of the warning signs are there.Why take that risk, considering Murray's age?

If you don't like Miller, fair enough. But that doesn't mean you turn to Murray. Trust me, I want a bell cow. I think it is important for this team. But we have to face facts. Murray is not that guy anymore. Why wouldn't we just move on to younger, Better options?

Even if you don't factory in the huge amount of carries from last year, Running backs across-the-board decline right around Murray's age. Smart teams move on. Especially when you can see it happening right in front of your face.
I don't agree with everything, but you make some fair points.

I honestly think the guy has plenty left in the tank. He had one heavy workload year, but over the life of his career, he's had a pretty light workload for a RB with a 5 year career.

I still want to go after someone else, but I would love to bring him back and I think he'd be productive for us again.
 

Texas Ace

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Add to that, you could see the carries adding up at the end of last year.

He was definitley a step slower over the last 4 games.
If a step slower over the last 4 regular season and 2 playoff games means he "only" ended up with 4.1 YPC, 3 100 yard rushing games, and 7 TDs, then I'd hope our next RB can be a step slower too.
 

VA Cowboy

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I wouldn't be totally opposed to it but it depends on price and who else is available. My apprehension isn't his lack of productivity this year since I think a lot has to do with the Eagles scheme and the way he was used. What I don't like is his whiny attitude. Crying to the owner my work in Dallas but is part of the reason our culture is the way it is. Murray found out it doesn't work that way in Philly. Lurie isn't going to override Kelly like Jerry would do with his puppet HC.
 

Cowboysrock55

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History said this would happen to him. Maybe not to this extent, but the big dropoff was inevitable.

F him.
This is what happens to all RBs when they have a season workload like Murray had. We all predicted the drop off when we talked about not wanting to resign him.

This was an easy thing to see coming. Yet people still can't see past their love of what Murray did in Dallas.
 

NoDak

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Piss on Murray, he's yesterday's news. His 400+ touch season and his age makes me not want anything to do with him any more.
 

Genghis Khan

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For the record, reports are that because of the cap hit the eagles would be far more likely to trade Murray after restructuring to lessen the cap implications than to cut him.
 

Rev

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Part of me wants to see Murray here on a one year deal. I just get the feeling it would be a redemption year for him and the line. I know it won't happen because of the contract.

I get the concern and agree with it for the most part. I just think he would prove it for a year before he got complacent.
 

Clay_Allison

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Murray is old news. Rather get a guy with more tread on the tires like Miller.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Part of me wants to see Murray here on a one year deal. I just get the feeling it would be a redemption year for him and the line. I know it won't happen because of the contract.

I get the concern and agree with it for the most part. I just think he would prove it for a year before he got complacent.
And I'm ok with this but people talking about 5-6 mil, absolutely not. I'll take Murray on a cheap ass prove it contract competing against another talented young back in the roster.

Of course the problem with this coaching staff is they would stick with Murray even if he was sucking ass simply because they trust him.
 

NoDak

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Yeah. And?

He'll be 28 in another month or so. That age is ok IF he's already in the middle of a contract with us. I don't want him to be 28 before he'll start a contract that more than likely will be for 3 years min. And for good money. Then, add the mileage to that? No thank you.
 
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E_D_Guapo

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IThere's simply no basis for declaring Murray as a declining or finished player nor is there basis for considering a guy like Lamar Miller a better option.
Give me Miller over Murray. No question about it. Younger, less mileage, and significantly more playmaking ability. The guy has some juice and is capable of taking it to the house from just about anywhere on the field. I was hoping Dallas would try and trade for him last offseason (maybe they did and couldn't get anything done, I don't know). I would give him a hard look. If he is going to command more money than they want to pay then just draft a RB, but Miller is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to sign. He probably isn't the workhorse that Murray is (but he is a racehorse, which Murray definitely is not) but keep McFadden or Turbin around to take 7-8 carries a game.

Murray was outstanding in 2014. No doubt about it. And if they can get him back cheap so be it, but I would not make a habit of giving him 25+ touches per game again. I'm sure he can still move the chains and is a good all-around RB, but relying on him as option A, B, & C again would be a big mistake, IMO.
 

Texas Ace

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Part of me wants to see Murray here on a one year deal. I just get the feeling it would be a redemption year for him and the line. I know it won't happen because of the contract.

I get the concern and agree with it for the most part. I just think he would prove it for a year before he got complacent.
I think after the awful year he's had in Philly coupled with returning to Dallas would have him super motivated. He'd be a pissed player looking to show everyone that he's still a great RB in this league.

I really do believe he'd play well for us.
 

Texas Ace

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And I'm ok with this but people talking about 5-6 mil, absolutely not. I'll take Murray on a cheap ass prove it contract competing against another talented young back in the roster.

Of course the problem with this coaching staff is they would stick with Murray even if he was sucking ass simply because they trust him.
5-6 mill for Murray? Hell no.....and who said that?

One of the primary reasons I want him back is because I'd expect his value to drop big time after the season he's had. We could sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal with the 1st year setup to be a prove it year. Under no circumstance should his base salary be a cent over 3 million for that 1st year.

If he went on to rush for 1,400 yards or so, then reward the man with a 2 year extension at around 4-5 mill and be done with it.

And like others have said, I too would want him to be part of a group and not the all around workhorse he was before. Draft and/or sign a guy.

Ideally, Murray would be capable of producing at 20 carries a game as opposed to 25-28 like before.

If he hits the street, and I'm guessing he will, I really think the Cowboys will go after him. As [MENTION=3]boozeman[/MENTION] likes to say, it is the laziest FO in football, but in this instance, I'd actually agree in bringing back someone we're familiar with.
 

Clay_Allison

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I think after the awful year he's had in Philly coupled with returning to Dallas would have him super motivated. He'd be a pissed player looking to show everyone that he's still a great RB in this league.

I really do believe he'd play well for us.
It just feels like you think you can hit the reset button and it will be last year all over again. It's possible being barely used in Philly has given him enough rest for him to bounce back, but it's possible his legs are shot.
 

Rev

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It just feels like you think you can hit the reset button and it will be last year all over again. It's possible being barely used in Philly has given him enough rest for him to bounce back, but it's possible his legs are shot.
I do agree with Ace at least for the first year and that's why I advocated for a one year deal. He wouldn't go for it but maybe the lack of productivity will force a prove it year.

The chance of this happening is very slim but so is being able to afford Miller.
 

Clay_Allison

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I do agree with Ace at least for the first year and that's why I advocated for a one year deal. He wouldn't go for it but maybe the lack of productivity will force a prove it year.

The chance of this happening is very slim but so is being able to afford Miller.
His whole base salary is guaranteed next year, so Philly has no reason to cut him.
 
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