TV Thread

L.T. Fan · Jan 3, 2016

Dowtain Abbey is back. :art

Rev · Jan 4, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
It's really sad. Especially when you see the impact of people who have money and those who don't when it comes to fighting a criminal case.

Not sure money would have made a difference in this situation. I just got the feeling it was a case where a corrupt system was going to take care of their own regardless. This was very well done and glad I was made aware of the documentary. I won't be driving through that area in my lifetime that's for sure.

Deuce · Jan 4, 2016

I have mixed feelings about the doc.

Yes, taken how it's presented its a very sad case. But it very well could be a complete propaganda piece like Blackfish was. My question is...

if the tampering and lack of physical evidence that points to Avery and especially the boy are so overwhelming as presented, why hasn't their cases gone all the way to the state and federal appeals levers? The state wouldn't even hear it. Getting some crooked sheriff's and a bad judge is one thing but I can't imagine it goes much higher than that.

My my guess is this is basically going to be like a Kickstarter to get funding for his federal appeal.

Rev · Jan 4, 2016

Deuce said:
I have mixed feelings about the doc.

Yes, taken how it's presented its a very sad case. But it very well could be a complete propaganda piece like Blackfish was. My question is...

if the tampering and lack of physical evidence that points to Avery and especially the boy are so overwhelming as presented, why hasn't their cases gone all the way to the state and federal appeals levers? The state wouldn't even hear it. Getting some crooked sheriff's and a bad judge is one thing but I can't imagine it goes much higher than that.

My my guess is this is basically going to be like a Kickstarter to get funding for his federal appeal.

Maxim interviewed Katz and he is claiming the same thing. My phone is acting up and can't post the article but basically states that it's one-sided and didn't show all of the evidence. Still doesn't say it couldn't be planted but he thinks it's only purpose was to demonize the prosecutor.

Cotton · Jan 4, 2016

Rev said:
Maxim interviewed Katz and he is claiming the same thing. My phone is acting up and can't post the article but basically states that it's one-sided and didn't show all of the evidence. Still doesn't say it couldn't be planted but he thinks it's only purpose was to demonize the prosecutor.

Of course he is going to say anything he can to look better. After that sexting debacle after the trial, he has to do anything in his power to improve his image. Or salvage it.

Jiggyfly · Jan 4, 2016

Deuce said:
I have mixed feelings about the doc.

Yes, taken how it's presented its a very sad case. But it very well could be a complete propaganda piece like Blackfish was. My question is...

if the tampering and lack of physical evidence that points to Avery and especially the boy are so overwhelming as presented, why hasn't their cases gone all the way to the state and federal appeals levers? The state wouldn't even hear it. Getting some crooked sheriff's and a bad judge is one thing but I can't imagine it goes much higher than that.

My my guess is this is basically going to be like a Kickstarter to get funding for his federal appeal.

Once a person is convicted those higher courts in those states are usually going to stay in line with the local jurisdictions ruling, it's very hard to get judges to go against each other.

Deuce · Jan 4, 2016

Rev said:
Maxim interviewed Katz and he is claiming the same thing. My phone is acting up and can't post the article but basically states that it's one-sided and didn't show all of the evidence. Still doesn't say it couldn't be planted but he thinks it's only purpose was to demonize the prosecutor.

with how much of a smarmy douche he appears to be, you would expect that. But that doesn't mean he's wrong.

Deuce · Jan 4, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
Once a person is convicted those higher courts in those states are usually going to stay in line with the local jurisdictions ruling, it's very hard to get judges to go against each other.

Sure, in most cases. But there appeared to be some pretty significant problems in collecting evidence. I can't imagine the state would just look the other way unless it's being embellished.

Jiggyfly · Jan 4, 2016

Deuce said:
Sure, in most cases. But there appeared to be some pretty significant problems in collecting evidence. I can't imagine the state would just look the other way unless it's being embellished.

I watch a lot of the Murder Channel (Investigation Discovery) and they have these type of situations all of the time.

It usually has to get to Federal level to start getting any traction, they seem to give the prosecution all of the benefit of doubt.

I have seen cases where the officer who worked the case believed in innocence after new evidence came to light and it still got no traction.

With that said these shows can paint a very different picture from the actual case but Prosecutors hate admitting any wrongdoing, dam the facts.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Rev said:
Not sure money would have made a difference in this situation. I just got the feeling it was a case where a corrupt system was going to take care of their own regardless. This was very well done and glad I was made aware of the documentary. I won't be driving through that area in my lifetime that's for sure.

For the nephew it definitely would have made a difference. His first public defender was horrific. That attorney should not only be disbarred but probably punished even beyond that. What kind of an attorney lets his client be questioned outside of his presence. It was disgusting.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Rev said:
Maxim interviewed Katz and he is claiming the same thing. My phone is acting up and can't post the article but basically states that it's one-sided and didn't show all of the evidence. Still doesn't say it couldn't be planted but he thinks it's only purpose was to demonize the prosecutor.

Well first of all I loved seeing the part about Katz basically being shamed for doing the creepy stuff he did. I knew there was something seriously wrong with him when I heard that high pitched sally voice. But in all reality, criminal cases aren't overturned because of the weight of the evidence. They are overturned because a judge made an incorrect ruling. The burden for an appeal is set extremely high and it is very difficult to get something overturned once a jury has made a decision. It's the same flaw in the system that saw Avery sit in jail 18 years even though DNA and other evidence weighed harshly against that conviction.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Deuce said:
Sure, in most cases. But there appeared to be some pretty significant problems in collecting evidence. I can't imagine the state would just look the other way unless it's being embellished.

I mean I think the documentary was definitely filmed from the side of Steven Avery.

The sad thing is we still have no idea what happened. Even if you believe that Steven was guilty, the evidence is so messed up that it's hard to make sense of what actually happened. How did bones end up all over the place. How did his blood get in a vehicle but not his finger prints. Clearly none of the story the nephew told was really true otherwise there would have been real blood evidence in that garage or in Avery's trailer. For someone to have there entire life thrown away, we are still kind of left here wondering what in the hell actually happened to that poor girl. No way in hell Avery is intelligent enough to clean up his mess that well.

Rev · Jan 4, 2016

Making a Murderer

Why was Avery found guilty of owning a firearm? He wasn't a felon anymore???

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Rev said:
Making a Murderer

Why was Avery found guilty of owning a firearm? He wasn't a felon anymore???

He had felony burglary charges prior to the rape one. He was convicted of burglary I think for stealing like a case of beer and a cheese sandwhich from a bar, and then like $60 in quarters or something stupid. You have to remember back to the very first few episodes when they talk about the stupid trouble he use to get into. Then there was also the charges of animal cruelty (Not sure if it was a felony) where he threw the cat screwing around with his friends and it got caught on fire. They used these things as prime example of how he always fessed up to anything he did wrong.

Cotton · Jan 4, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
For the nephew it definitely would have made a difference. His first public defender was horrific. That attorney should not only be disbarred but probably punished even beyond that. What kind of an attorney lets his client be questioned outside of his presence. It was disgusting.

Not just that, but the coerced confession from his own damn attorney. That was terrible.

Cotton · Jan 4, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
I mean I think the documentary was definitely filmed from the side of Steven Avery.

The sad thing is we still have no idea what happened. Even if you believe that Steven was guilty, the evidence is so messed up that it's hard to make sense of what actually happened. How did bones end up all over the place. How did his blood get in a vehicle but not his finger prints. Clearly none of the story the nephew told was really true otherwise there would have been real blood evidence in that garage or in Avery's trailer. For someone to have there entire life thrown away, we are still kind of left here wondering what in the hell actually happened to that poor girl. No way in hell Avery is intelligent enough to clean up his mess that well.

The blood thing is what makes me lean towards him being innocent. The story was he slit her throat laying on the bed. Then it changed to here being stabbed like 18 times. There would have been blood all over that bedroom, and not a single drop was found in the investigation. Just really hard to believe.

Cotton · Jan 4, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
He had felony burglary charges prior to the rape one. He was convicted of burglary I think for stealing like a case of beer and a cheese sandwhich from a bar, and then like $60 in quarters or something stupid. You have to remember back to the very first few episodes when they talk about the stupid trouble he use to get into. Then there was also the charges of animal cruelty (Not sure if it was a felony) where he threw the cat screwing around with his friends and it got caught on fire. They used these things as prime example of how he always fessed up to anything he did wrong.

Correct. He had a felony on his record before he went to prison the first time.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Iamtdg said:
Not just that, but the coerced confession from his own damn attorney. That was terrible.

How that case wasn't overturned is really beyond me. I've never seen an attorney do anything like that before. You could tell from the very second that public defender was assigned to the case what a joke he was.

Cowboysrock55 · Jan 4, 2016

Iamtdg said:
The blood thing is what makes me lean towards him being innocent. The story was he slit her throat laying on the bed. Then it changed to here being stabbed like 18 times. There would have been blood all over that bedroom, and not a single drop was found in the investigation. Just really hard to believe.

Then the story was that she was shot in the garage. Yet they didn't find a single drop in that crack in the concrete? It's not like he could clean in there and when you shoot someone blood gets everywhere. That place was a mess with a million surfaces. There was no way he could have cleaned everything.

Rev · Jan 4, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
He had felony burglary charges prior to the rape one. He was convicted of burglary I think for stealing like a case of beer and a cheese sandwhich from a bar, and then like $60 in quarters or something stupid. You have to remember back to the very first few episodes when they talk about the stupid trouble he use to get into. Then there was also the charges of animal cruelty (Not sure if it was a felony) where he threw the cat screwing around with his friends and it got caught on fire. They used these things as prime example of how he always fessed up to anything he did wrong.

I remember those but couldn't remember if they were enough to be felonies.

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