2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Smitty

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There is nothing perfect about this example because he does not know how well those other pens were made.

Are you saying no pharmaceuticals should be regulated?

Should we be like China and let companies slap any label on any drug?
No one said that, only that it has been impossible for competitors to hit the market thus creating a monopoly where price gouging can thrive without competition.

The fact your favorite presidential administration might have something to do with that is just bonus content.
 

Jiggyfly

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No one said that, only that it has been impossible for competitors to hit the market thus creating a monopoly where price gouging can thrive without competition.

The fact your favorite presidential administration might have something to do with that is just bonus content.
Except it's not impossible for competitors to hit the market.

One competitor pulled out after having to recall there product because of issues with dosage.

And another competitor could be on the market in 6 months.

So yeah hyperbole on that impossible rhetoric.
 

Kbrown

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That article does nothing to wipe away the image of greedy villains with bags of money. "They did it because they could." Hooray.

I realize that companies lobbying for laws and regulations to stifle their competition is not pure capitalism, but at some point the people who argue this side every time a megacorp does something shitty start to sound like the Marxists who used to argue that, well, the USSR didn't represent authentic communism.

Seems like both sides are content making hollow ideological points, and it all gets rather tiresome.
 

Cowboysrock55

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That article does nothing to wipe away the image of greedy villains with bags of money. "They did it because they could." Hooray.
Yes, every person who makes lot of money is the devil and the poor people are Saints. I get that this is the perception of the downtrodden. But it's horribly inaccurate. But feel free to call the CEO a villain all you want, just don't blame her creation on capitalism. It was created by government and their policies. She is simply a scape goat for politicians like Obama, Hilary and Bernie who helped create the monster.
 

Kbrown

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Yes, every person who makes lot of money is the devil and the poor people are Saints.
Mm yes, because this is absolutely what I said. Since we apparently are arguing past each other, OMG I can't believe you said all poor people are lazy and rich people are our rightful overlords!!

Sorry, but if your company jacks up the price of life-saving medicine "because it can," it is wicked. Pretty simple to me.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Sorry, but if your company jacks up the price of life-saving medicine "because it can," it is wicked. Pretty simple to me.
Well to be clear, they didn't jack up the price of life saving medication. The medication itself is actually very cheap. They jacked up the price on the epi pen which is a delivery system for the very cheap medication.

And why shouldn't a company increase their prices if the government paves the way for them to do so? Am I to believe that more government regulation is going to fix the problem that was created by government regulation in the first place? Your belief that the company and their employees should sacrifice themselves for the good will of the people is touching but I don't see it that way.
 

Kbrown

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Well to be clear, they didn't jack up the price of life saving medication. The medication itself is actually very cheap. They jacked up the price on the epi pen which is a delivery system for the very cheap medication.

And why shouldn't a company increase their prices if the government paves the way for them to do so? Am I to believe that more government regulation is going to fix the problem that was created by government regulation in the first place? Your belief that the company and their employees should sacrifice themselves for the good will of the people is touching but I don't see it that way.
Look it, we mostly agree on the nuts and bolts of how to fix the problem.

But if you want a reason why the conservative/libertarian message never seems to fully resonate, perhaps throttle back on the idea that people are lazy and just want free government benefits, and maybe consider that people are tired of hearing that wealthy CEOs can't be blamed for taking advantage of the broken system. Nah, I can blame the government and the companies, too. Plenty of blame to go around.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Look it, we mostly agree on the nuts and bolts of how to fix the problem.

But if you want a reason why the conservative/libertarian message never seems to fully resonate, perhaps throttle back on the idea that people are lazy and just want free government benefits, and maybe consider that people are tired of hearing that wealthy CEOs can't be blamed for taking advantage of the broken system. Nah, I can blame the government and the companies, too. Plenty of blame to go around.
I've never felt like a company or another private citizen owed me something. I don't look at a CEO's 16 million dollar salary and feel like he owes that money to me. Or that he owes it to someone else to sacrifice his salary for the greater good of others. Those people didn't do anything to "deserve" that money.

Government on the other hand is different. We pay for it with our taxes and the only reason it is there is to make people's lives better. If it can't do that right then I have no use for it. That's why I struggle to hate a CEO who owes me nothing but have no problem hating the government.
 

Angrymesscan

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Big companies do prey and regulations aid and abet.

My wife just had screws removed from her foot and the hospital charged $20 for "a bag of ice" to bring the swelling down. Funny part is the insurance wouldn't cover it, because they consider it "a personal item"...

CSB
 

L.T. Fan

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I've never felt like a company or another private citizen owed me something. I don't look at a CEO's 16 million dollar salary and feel like he owes that money to me. Or that he owes it to someone else to sacrifice his salary for the greater good of others. Those people didn't do anything to "deserve" that money.

Government on the other hand is different. We pay for it with our taxes and the only reason it is there is to make people's lives better. If it can't do that right then I have no use for it. That's why I struggle to hate a CEO who owes me nothing but have no problem hating the government.
Agree. The private sector should have free reign to spend their resources as they see fit. The only time government should intervene into a company is if they are actually abusing the citizenry with deception or fraud and in some instances of anti trust.

Even under those circumstances they have no right to tell them how to structure their expenditures.
 

Kbrown

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I've never felt like a company or another private citizen owed me something. I don't look at a CEO's 16 million dollar salary and feel like he owes that money to me. Or that he owes it to someone else to sacrifice his salary for the greater good of others. Those people didn't do anything to "deserve" that money.

Government on the other hand is different. We pay for it with our taxes and the only reason it is there is to make people's lives better. If it can't do that right then I have no use for it. That's why I struggle to hate a CEO who owes me nothing but have no problem hating the government.
None of this is remotely related to the points I made. I work in a small business too. I would like to make millions. I hate big government's way of facilitating cronyism, but I don't want CEOs' salaries taken. Either you are making a separate point, or you're following the handbook on arguments like this and turning it back to envious and greedy poor people, which, again, is why a lot of people tune out the conservative agenda, unfortunately.

Well, that and supposed conservatives recently chose a reality TV star to represent them, but I digress.
 

Cowboysrock55

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but I don't want CEOs' salaries taken. Either you are making a separate point, or you're following the handbook on arguments like this and turning it back to envious and greedy poor people, which, again, is why a lot of people tune out the conservative agenda, unfortunately.
Because you don't like CEO's raising the price of their product. It is exactly what this discussion is about.
 

L.T. Fan

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None of this is remotely related to the points I made. I work in a small business too. I would like to make millions. I hate big government's way of facilitating cronyism, but I don't want CEOs' salaries taken. Either you are making a separate point, or you're following the handbook on arguments like this and turning it back to envious and greedy poor people, which, again, is why a lot of people tune out the conservative agenda, unfortunately.

Well, that and supposed conservatives recently chose a reality TV star to represent them, but I digress.
I think the true picture is that the idividials that put Trump at the top of the candidates were of the opinon that the status quo politician was no longer a preferable choice. Notwithstanding the reality tv celebrity.
 
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Kbrown

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Because you don't like CEO's raising the price of their product. It is exactly what this discussion is about.
I don't like this particular situation, which is an example of a company taking advantage of our broken crony capitalist system. At least that was the thesis of the article you posted.

You think it's high-five worthy, so we differ. No biggie.
 

Jiggyfly

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Look it, we mostly agree on the nuts and bolts of how to fix the problem.

But if you want a reason why the conservative/libertarian message never seems to fully resonate, perhaps throttle back on the idea that people are lazy and just want free government benefits, and maybe consider that people are tired of hearing that wealthy CEOs can't be blamed for taking advantage of the broken system. Nah, I can blame the government and the companies, too. Plenty of blame to go around.
Bravo.

Very well put, I wanted to inject some nuance but it seemed useless when that article is the basis for a discussion.
 

BipolarFuk

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An open letter to Mylan CEO, Heather Bresch

In light of recent news regarding EpiPens, I would like to give you an opportunity to justify your pay increase from $2,453,456 in 2007, to $18,931,068 in 2015. In that time, the wholesale cost of an epipen has gone from $56.64 to $317.82. By the way, the cost of a 1 ml amp of epinephrine is $4.49. So, I give you the opportunity to justify the increase in the cost of an epipen, as well as the increase in your salary.

I know you must have an explanation.

As a practicing Emergency Medicine physician, I have cared for nearly 50,000 patients in my career. As a team, my nursing staff, techs, medical assistants, Physician Assistants, are all trained to save lives. WE frequently care for acute anaphylactic and allergic reactions. So, while I know you must have an explanation to my question, here are some things I know you do not know.

You do not know the look on a patient’s face when they are struggling to breath after a bee sting.

You do not know the fear a patient has when their lips and tongue are so swollen, there is barely an airway to care for.

You have never heard the sound of stridor when air can barely make its way to the lungs.

You have never seen the look of a parent when their child is unresponsive.

You have never had to debate whether you need to give epinephrine to a patient in anaphylactic shock who has underlying cardiac disease with the knowledge that the drug may save their life, but may cause a heart attack.

You have never attempted to intubate a patient in respiratory failure after a bee sting.

You have never watched your own child, while on vacation, eat a peanut butter sandwich, which they have done so many times before, but breakout in a severe rash and receive a prescription for an epipen, only to be told that the pharmacy doesn’t take accept your insurance and you have to pay $500 out of pocket for a potential life saving medicine.

You have never performed CPR on a child.

You have never told a parent that their child died.

These are things that you do not know. However, I DO. I HAVE DONE THEM!!! WE DO. MY TEAM HAS DONE THEM!!!

So, please Ms. Bresch, justify your increase of 461% for a medication that costs $4.49, to the point that patients and families who may not have insurance have to make a decision that could lead to death. Justify your pay increase by 671%.

Justify your greed.

Sincerely,

Mark A. Kenton D.O.
 
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