2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Genghis Khan

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Tl;dr: the real slime are the ones sacrificing their integrity and principles for their careers, not the one standing up for his beliefs and his family.
 

Jiggyfly

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But according to the Kasich adviser (who spoke only under the condition that he not be named), Donald Jr. wanted to make him an offer nonetheless: Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?

When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.

Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?

“Making America great again” was the casual reply.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/20....co/FGdwzsAmms
 

Jiggyfly

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That's not the narrative I've been reading. A lot of people are calling it career suicide unless Trump gets trounced.

It certainly flies in the face of other republicans who purport to be conservative and have paid lip service to being anti-trump but when push comes to shove have put their party and career ahead of principles and integrity.

Yes it is consistent with Cruz's reputation as a contrarian but it's very public this time and the stakes are higher.

As far as I can see Cruz is the only major player in the party who stared down the bully and hasn't blinked.

Major props from me, because it would be much easier to check your spine at the door and decide that the party is more important than your ideals and beliefs.

It's a sad state of affairs when your party is more important to you than what that party was supposed to stand for in the first place.

I very much hope someone steps up and provides a major, viable alternative to the republican party (not just in this election but more importantly for the future) because at this point I feel like there's no one who truly represents my beliefs.
Cruz is kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth.

He has not actually spoken against trump and this morning he said he would not say anything bad about Trump.

Kasich is the one taking a stronger stand, he is not trying to straddle any lines.
 

townsend

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Cruz is kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth.

He has not actually spoken against trump and this morning he said he would not say anything bad about Trump.

Kasich is the one taking a stronger stand, he is not trying to straddle any lines.
Keep in mind that Bob Dole is the only republican presidential nominee to actually endorse Trump. I guess the guy who's willing to be on a ticket with Gerald Ford isn't afraid of someone shaming the party.
 

Kbrown

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I don't care for Cruz. He's always struck me as foremost a man of ambition. He also seems like that kid at the front of the class that, with five minutes left, reminds the teacher that she'd promised a quiz that day. But I admire the hell out of the way he has handled this whole deal.

I have a deep aversion toward mobs of all sorts. These convention settings call into focus the nature of our "team sport" political system. People were chanting in unison for him to sign an oath for the good of the team. It's hard to ignore the fascist undertones there. It's also clear that Trump, being part mafia don and part carnival showman, knew the speech would play out that way and orchestrated his own entrance for maximum effect.

The way Cruz spoke with conviction about his family to the Texas delegation, particularly to the guy making "crybaby" faces in the back, I found pretty stirring. Good for him.
 

Kbrown

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Cruz is kinda talking out of both sides of his mouth.

He has not actually spoken against trump and this morning he said he would not say anything bad about Trump.

Kasich is the one taking a stronger stand, he is not trying to straddle any lines.
I think you are expecting too much. You want him to come out and denounce Trump openly and maybe support Hillary because you hate Trump and are left wing. I think what we got was a pretty bold move, considering the hive mind he was up against.
 

L.T. Fan

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Sounds like some of the Republican party members are pissed that Trump actually pulled off what they didn't think he could and are being a bunch of babies. They would rather see their party bite the dust than get in line with the will of the voters. Cruz isn't courageous for his position on the outcome and making a showing of his convictions. He really just showed that he is a vindictive loser who has a personal agenda.
 

Kbrown

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Sounds like some of the Republican party members are pissed that Trump actually pulled off what they didn't think he could and are being a bunch of babies. They would rather see their party bite the dust than get in line with the will of the voters. Cruz isn't courageous for his position on the outcome and making a showing of his convictions. He really just showed that he is a vindictive loser who has a personal agenda.
Haha, some "party of individual liberty" you're describing.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Sounds like some of the Republican party members are pissed that Trump actually pulled off what they didn't think he could and are being a bunch of babies. They would rather see their party bite the dust than get in line with the will of the voters. Cruz isn't courageous for his position on the outcome and making a showing of his convictions. He really just showed that he is a vindictive loser who has a personal agenda.
Sometimes it just feels like sour grapes. Like the person who lost is just being a poor sport. I'm not saying you should come out and support Trump necessarily but what exactly is the point of speaking at the RNC?
 

L.T. Fan

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Haha, some "party of individual liberty" you're describing.
I am simply describing what appears to have occurred. The party line politicians aren't wild about the outcome and some have chosen to take the low road rather than line up with the outcome. They just can't accept what has happened.
 

Kbrown

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I am simply describing what appears to have occurred. The party line politicians aren't wild about the outcome and some have chosen to take the low road rather than line up with the outcome. They just can't accept what has happened.
I realize this, and that's why, God-wiling, in forty years my grandkids will be learning about Republicans and Democrats the same way we learned about the Whigs.
 

Jiggyfly

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I think you are expecting too much. You want him to come out and denounce Trump openly and maybe support Hillary because you hate Trump and are left wing. I think what we got was a pretty bold move, considering the hive mind he was up against.
What?

I want him to endorse Hillary, how the hell did you get to that line of reasoning?

I watched what he did in front of the Texas delegation and he basically said he was watching and waiting.

For what?

Does he actually think Trump is changing or that he can believe him just because he says so?

I don't care what he does I just don't think fence straddling is especially brave.
 

Jiggyfly

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I am simply describing what appears to have occurred. The party line politicians aren't wild about the outcome and some have chosen to take the low road rather than line up with the outcome. They just can't accept what has happened.
Is lining up with the outcome something that should be applauded?
 

Genghis Khan

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Sounds like some of the Republican party members are pissed that Trump actually pulled off what they didn't think he could and are being a bunch of babies. They would rather see their party bite the dust than get in line with the will of the voters. Cruz isn't courageous for his position on the outcome and making a showing of his convictions. He really just showed that he is a vindictive loser who has a personal agenda.

Nonsense. This isn't about being a vindictive loser. Cruz likely wouldn't be doing this had any other candidate won.

This is about whether the party represents your interests or not. Whether the candidate represents your party in the right way. What you believe in. What's best for your country.

Would you be okay if say, a serial killer somehow won the nomination? Or a David Karesh type cult leader? Would it be admirable to say, "well, he beat me fair and square. Now I'm going to endorse him and pretend he won't be a disaster for this country"? Would it be admirable to put your party ahead of your country? Or is the right thing to do to refuse to back the guy, to stand up against that which is anathema to a healthy and prosperous party and country?

Romney wasn't my first choice in 12, but he won so fair enough. I voted for him in November because, though not my first choice I think he would've been fine and his core values generally align with mine.

Trump is different. A) he doesn't belong in the republican party. His core values do not fit. B) He shouldn't be president. He doesn't demonstrate a fundamental understanding of the issues. He doesn't seem to have even much desire to do the job. His behavior is abhorrent. He is a bully. He is divisive.

And all these republicans who fought him tooth and nail in the primary and vowed to never support him but are now falling in line behind him are spineless cowards or political opportunists, plain and simple.
 

L.T. Fan

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Nonsense. This isn't about being a vindictive loser. Cruz likely wouldn't be doing this had any other candidate won.

This is about whether the party represents your interests or not. Whether the candidate represents your party in the right way. What you believe in. What's best for your country.

Would you be okay if say, a serial killer somehow won the nomination? Or a David Karesh type cult leader? Would it be admirable to say, "well, he beat me fair and square. Now I'm going to endorse him and pretend he won't be a disaster for this country"? Would it be admirable to put your party ahead of your country? Or is the right thing to do to refuse to back the guy, to stand up against that which is anathema to a healthy and prosperous party and country?

Romney wasn't my first choice in 12, but he won so fair enough. I voted for him in November because, though not my first choice I think he would've been fine and his core values generally align with mine.

Trump is different. A) he doesn't belong in the republican party. His core values do not fit. B) He shouldn't be president. He doesn't demonstrate a fundamental understanding of the issues. He doesn't seem to have even much desire to do the job. His behavior is abhorrent. He is a bully. He is divisive.

And all these republicans who fought him tooth and nail in the primary and vowed to never support him but are now falling in line behind him are spineless cowards or political opportunists, plain and simple.
Elections are still about people's choices. That's why there are primaries. The Republican party produced a non conformist via people's voting and the some of party leaders can't abide with it. They have a choice to bend to the will of the people or jump ship. That's just the way it shakes out.
 

boozeman

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So, uh, I tuned into the RNC at 8:45 expecting to see Trump's speech as that is when I read it would be.

And I see an angry Asian lady.
 

boozeman

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Trump is really showing he doesn't know how to put on a show. This whole RNC has been a colossal crap fest.

It wouldn't have taken much to get a foothold on Clinton. This is pathetically sad.

Nothing like watching a bunch no rhythm white people sway out of tune with the shitty motherfucking music.
 

boozeman

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Funny stuff, Trump's camp was projecting a speech over an hour ago. Now it is to be at 10:15 after what I am sure is to be a bunch more of lame ass speakers and dorks who basically could not carry a cheap comedy show at the Catskills.

And his whole speech has been transcripted. So people can read it in advance.

Good God...what an amateurish clod.

I feel stupid for actually thinking he might be able to nail a good speech to make him somewhat less of a joke.
 

L.T. Fan

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Funny stuff, Trump's camp was projecting a speech over an hour ago. Now it is to be at 10:15 after what I am sure is to be a bunch more of lame ass speakers and dorks who basically could not carry a cheap comedy show at the Catskills.

And his whole speech has been transcripted. So people can read it in advance.

Good God...what an amateurish clod.

I feel stupid for actually thinking he might be able to nail a good speech to make him somewhat less of a joke.
Try the off button.
 
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