Combine Stuff...

boozeman

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I don't understand what about that interview that set everybody off.

He was not disrespectful he just seemed kind of tired and a little disappointed.

Like he was just decompressing from the intensity of the combine.
If it was wearing him out like that, then what's he going to do with the intensity of an NFL camp?

Really dropped him in my book. I don't expect a Rhodes scholar waving pom poms, but that was just terrible.

If he reacted like that with teams, he will drop way out of the top 5.
 

boozeman

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Incriminating Tweets from Carson Wentz?

Appears he hates gay people.



Hopefully it turns off the Browns.
 

Jiggyfly

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If it was wearing him out like that, then what's he going to do with the intensity of an NFL camp?

Really dropped him in my book. I don't expect a Rhodes scholar waving pom poms, but that was just terrible.

If he reacted like that with teams, he will drop way out of the top 5.

I did not see anything terrible he answered the questions forthright.

He did not seem snippy or upset he just had short answers.

I have not heard anything about him not interviewing well and we know it would have been buzzing by now so I think you are projecting a bit.

I am not even that hot on him anymore but the interview had nothing to do with it.
 

boozeman

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:tippytoe
 

Simpleton

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Yea, I mean he was 16 when he was saying that stuff and calling people "gay", I constantly said shit like this when I was his age and a little older honestly.

It's not as bad as Bosa who posted something literally like 3 hours ago mocking people about how he'd be retired at 35 while they'd still be slaving away to pay off loans. I've always kind of thought he was a meathead/douchebag/bro type, which is one thing, but he seems even more arrogant than I thought, starting to cool on him a bit.
 

boozeman

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Yea, I mean he was 16 when he was saying that stuff and calling people "gay", I constantly said shit like this when I was his age and a little older honestly.
I know. It is no worse than grown men like Cole Beasley going off on their timelines.

I was just hoping someone with the Browns is like really offended.

Joey Bosa had a few choice words today and deleted them.
 

Jiggyfly

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Just watched the Montana game and it crystallized some of my fears about Wentz.

He throws a lot of contested balls.

I think he would be a pick machine doing that at the next level.

He did the same thing in the Senior Bowl, I think he is still very raw, so raw I don't know how you can be completely confident in him.

Yes he would sit for a couple of years and Dez would love him but at this point he is pretty much all potential.

I was comparing him to Bortles but I think Bortles was more polished at this point.
 

boozeman

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Just watched the Montana game and it crystallized some of my fears about Wentz.

He throws a lot of contested balls.

I think he would be a pick machine doing that at the next level.

He did the same thing in the Senior Bowl, I think he is still very raw, so raw I don't know how you can be completely confident in him.

Yes he would sit for a couple of years and Dez would love him but at this point he is pretty much all potential.

I was comparing him to Bortles but I think Bortles was more polished at this point.
Here is a game where Goff did pretty much the same thing. Check out each of his deep balls, the Colorado guy is like right there:

 

Jiggyfly

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Here is a game where Goff did pretty much the same thing. Check out each of his deep balls, the Colorado guy is like right there:

Yeah his deep balls were terrible and I understand the questions there, but most of those guys were open and he underthrew them.

Wentz was just gunning balls into receivers who had little separation and they were 10-yard sideline throws, little reward big risk.

Goff was also throwing a lot of back shoulder stuff and throwing guys open, he can adjust his throws as needed and his accuracy is great on the 10 to 15 yard stuff.

Goff reminds me a lot of Romo without the escape magic.

Now I will say this I don't know if he was injured or just off but if he cannot throw that deep stuff better I am not so enamored with him.

I am going to watch more games on both, I will probably start a thread.
 

Jiggyfly

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I will also say I don't see any way Goff goes to the Browns.

Between the small hands and ok arm I don't think Goff would be great in those conditions and Jackson likes to throw a lot of vertical stuff I think.
 

NoDak

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Incriminating Tweets from Carson Wentz?

Appears he hates gay people.



Hopefully it turns off the Browns.
2009? What was he then, about a sophomore in high school?
 

Simpleton

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That Goff video is from his sophomore year by the way, not this past season.

Anyway, I watched every game Wentz played this year months ago, I've been saying for a long time now that he locks onto his first target and stares down WR's, that results in alot of contested passes. He did exactly that in the FCS Championship where he threw an INT that gave the other team a chance to mount a comeback. His footwork also gets stagnant in the pocket.

Now, when I say I'm all about taking him at 4 it's because I know that he wouldn't have to play right away and his primary weaknesses are actually some of Romo's greatest strengths, so I'm confident that he would greatly improve in those areas with a few years of seasoning.

But all this talk of him being Luck or whatever is complete nonsense, basically, the hype train has gotten out of control. There are no elite QB prospects in this draft so people are falling in love with this guy because of easily quantifiable attributes (height, size, running ability) and because he says all the right things, they want him to be Luck or Newton because of how big he is, his arm and his running ability but he has warts that nobody is talking about anymore seemingly.

He does not do the hard to quantify things that great QB's do, namely subtle movements in the pocket to buy an extra second, scanning through progressions quickly, anticipating throws, etc. These are all things Goff does well, and they are all things Romo does well, that's why I'm confident that he would improve on all of this in Dallas, but if he goes to Cleveland and gets thrown to the wolves too soon, he won't be ready. He isn't Luck, he isn't a ready made savior, but people want to make him into that.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing about Goff's "slender" frame, he's only 21 and Eli went 1st overall weighing in at a stout 221 lbs, and this was over 10 years ago when QB's were not as protected as they are now.
 

Simpleton

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It's really amazing to look at what Byron Jones did last year at the Combine. This guy had the best vertical, broad jump, 3 cone, 20 yd shuttle and 60 yd shuttle at the event. He basically blew a supposed world class athletic freak in Ramsey out of the water in every drill.
 

Cowboysrock55

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But all this talk of him being Luck or whatever is complete nonsense, basically, the hype train has gotten out of control. There are no elite QB prospects in this draft so people are falling in love with this guy because of easily quantifiable attributes (height, size, running ability) and because he says all the right things, they want him to be Luck or Newton because of how big he is, his arm and his running ability but he has warts that nobody is talking about anymore seemingly.
People forget how truly raw Newton was as a QB coming out of college though. He had never thrown for more then like 2800 yards in a season. He was an absolute beast running in college but his passing skills were very raw. I think we are really just starting to see his throwing abilities develop. Wentz isn't that type of a runner but he is probably a more polished passer.

There is no Luck in this draft. But that doesn't happen very often. In today's college football where few teams are running an NFL style offense you just won't find a Luck type very often. But Goff is a very polished passer. He isn't perfect and has his off days but for the most part that guy is pinpoint accurate. I'm very high on Goff.

And honestly I haven't given up on Paxton Lynch either. He looked really good at the combine with his throws. I could see any of those three developing into elite NFL QBs. But I could also see them washing out if they go to a shitty situation and get the crap beat out of them.
 

Simpleton

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And honestly I haven't given up on Paxton Lynch either. He looked really good at the combine with his throws. I could see any of those three developing into elite NFL QBs. But I could also see them washing out if they go to a shitty situation and get the crap beat out of them.
I definitely agree with the part about any of them being great or washing out, it's really dependent on the situation they find themselves in.

Goff is the most polished but doesn't have elite "tools", Lynch probably has the best pure "tools" in terms of size, arm, athleticism, but he's most certainly the most raw, Wentz is right there in terms of "tools" but also has experience in a pro style offense and is more polished than Lynch but not as much as Goff. Lynch is almost certainly the riskiest whereas I think you could argue for either Wentz or Goff as having the most upside. I do think Goff is safer than Wentz in a sense.

The beautiful thing is we have a great situation for one of these guys to come in and reach their ceiling. If whoever Cleveland takes is not nurtured properly and is just thrown out there too soon they will definitely flounder, although Jackson being a QB guru of sorts should help whoever it is.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Goff is the most polished but doesn't have elite "tools"
Sometimes I think the Tools thing gets overrated a bit. I mean you look at the best QB in the NFL in Tom Brady and he doesn't really have what would be classified as "elite tools." He is 6'4" 225 lbs with a good arm and good mobility. But it's the stuff you can't quantify as easily that are off the charts for him. In no way am I trying to say Goff is the next Tom Brady but to me he is still clearly the best QB prospect in this draft. His ball placement, touch, accuracy and just overall ability to work a defense over are excellent. He has an extremely quick release and knows how to get the ball out of his hands in the face of pressure. If all 3 QBs are there at my pick Goff is the top choice easily for me.

With that being said Wentz and Lynch are very appealing prospects. And I think Wentz would work really well with Dez. To me Dez is the exact type of WR Wentz would dominate with. Massive catch radius. When he is covered he is still open.
 

boozeman

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It's really amazing to look at what Byron Jones did last year at the Combine. This guy had the best vertical, broad jump, 3 cone, 20 yd shuttle and 60 yd shuttle at the event. He basically blew a supposed world class athletic freak in Ramsey out of the water in every drill.
And yet, he was not heralded as the best thing since sliced bread.

Ramsey is.

I get that Jones was injured part of his final season but I just don't get how people are losing their mind over him.

Fact is, he may be a great athlete, but he is not a playmaker. He drops more INTs than can be counted.

If I am spending the top five in the draft on a player, I want him to transform the team. I want that player to be responsible for game changing plays.
 

Jiggyfly

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And yet, he was not heralded as the best thing since sliced bread.

Ramsey is.

I get that Jones was injured part of his final season but I just don't get how people are losing their mind over him.

Fact is, he may be a great athlete, but he is not a playmaker. He drops more INTs than can be counted.

If I am spending the top five in the draft on a player, I want him to transform the team. I want that player to be responsible for game changing plays.
That is an interesting comparison.

I'm betting the schools they played at had a lot to do with that as well, if Jones went to FSU there would be plenty of gushing.
 

Jiggyfly

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I missed the combine yesterday anybody want to give a rundown of how the 2nd tier CB's looked and any any safety's stood out.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Tyvis Powell among NFL draft risers from Day 4 at combine
Steve MuenchKevin Weidl

Cornerbacks and safeties


Jonathan Jones, CB, Auburn

Jones lacks prototypical size (5-foot-9, 186 pounds) and length (30¼-inch arms), which put him behind the eight ball before he took the field Monday. But Jones stood out by showing off the speed and explosiveness he flashes on tape. His 4.33 40-yard dash was the fastest of all the DBs and the third-fastest at the combine, behind only Georgia RB Keith Marshall (4.31) and Notre Dame WR Will Fuller (4.32). Jones added a 10-foot-3-inch broad jump and 36-inch vertical, both of which are above-average for his position. During drill work, he showed a bit of tightness in his hips -- which showed up in his agility drill results -- but he displayed good pop transitioning out of breaks and did a nice job tracking the ball. Jones turned some heads with a strong Senior Bowl last month, and with his combine performance today, it's clear he has used the postseason process to help his stock and put himself in the mid-round conversation.



Tyvis Powell, CB, Ohio State

Powell's size-speed combination alone makes him an intriguing safety prospect. At 6-foot-3 and 211 pounds, he ran a 4.46 40, which tied for 10th among defensive backs. He has the potential to develop into a playmaker at the NFL level after intercepting eight passes at Ohio State and showing the ability to snatch the ball out of the air in position drills. Plus, he has excellent length (32¾-inch arms), slightly bigger than average hands (9½ inches) and a 34.5-inch vertical. Powell, who started 33 games in three at Ohio State, moved himself into the Day 2 mix.


T.J. Green, S, Clemson

Green posted the second-fastest 40 time among DBs (4.34) and an above-average vertical jump for the position (35.5 inches). In fact, he was the only DB weighing more than 200 pounds who cracked the top five in the 40; he measured 6-foot-2 and 209 pounds. His ball skills are still a work in progress -- which is evident when watching his tape and performance during drills on Monday -- but he has the physical tools to get better. Green has slightly above average arm length (32 inches) and hand span (just north of 9½). He needs to get stronger (he benched 225 just 13 times), but upper body strength is an area players can improve over time, and he's tough against the run on tape. Finally, Green is an excellent special teams player who should make an immediate impact in that area as he works on realizing his considerable potential at safety.


Sean Davis, S, Maryland

Checking in at 6-foot-1 and 201 pounds, Davis was in the top 10 for all DBs and top five for safeties with his 40-yard dash (4.46), broad jump (10 feet, 6 inches) and vertical jump (37.5 inches). As for drill work, he showed a quality burst and did a nice job of tracking and playing the ball. But he was a bit high in his pedal and showed some tightness in his ankles and hips, which is also observed on his tape. He eased some concerns, though, with great times in the three-cone (6.64, second among DBs) and short shuttle (3.97, fifth). Davis made the switch to cornerback in 2015 but projects to be an NFL safety. He has good strength for the position (21 reps on the bench) and is a physical run-defender. Davis' strong showing Monday and his appealing versatility have him in the early Day 3 range.


K.J. Dillon, S, West Virginia

On tape, Dillon is a versatile safety who often aligned near the box, where he was a physical and reliable run-stopper. The big question for him coming into the combine was whether he had the athleticism and speed to hold up in coverage. Dillon's 4.53 40-yard dash (fourth among safeties) helped squash some of those worries. He added a 10-foot-1-inch broad jump, which was above five-year combine average for his position. Where Dillon really shined, though, was drill work. He showed good change-of-direction skills, fluidity and ball skills. Dillon continues to help his stock, and if he's able to put a cap on the postseason process with a good showing at his pro day, he will be off the board by Day 2.


Eric Murray, CB, Minnesota

Murray's 4.49 40 is markedly quicker than the five-year combine average for corners, even if his wasn't one of the fastest times of the day. At 5-foot-11, he has average height, but his above-average length (31¾-inch arms) and 39.5-inch vertical (fourth among DBs) mean he can match up with bigger receivers. Although benching 225 pounds 15 times isn't all that impressive, that's about average for corners, and Murray shows the ability to reroute receivers on tape. He might never be a playmaker -- he intercepted just two passes at the college level and didn't look like a natural pass catcher today -- but has flashed the ability to catch the ball with his hands away from his frame.
 
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