2016 NFL Draft Early Entries

Jiggyfly

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You frustrate enough people that their reactions to you crack me up. Carry on. You said you can understand the opinion earlier in the thread but keep debating like you don't.

It wasn't piling on either. Nobody else said that.
I don't understand what is frustrating about me defending my point.

Crock kept telling me how I did not understand diminishing returns and I explained how I felt it was not that.

It was a discussion between two people yet you chose to jump in with another snide comment.

he kept debating and so did I.

I never agreed with him about it being a diminishing return especially if Free was to die tomorrow, does that make sense to you?

You have been this drive by guy for as long as I can remember and then it's who me?

Why is that all you can do?

What did I say that was so outlandish?
 

Rev

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I never agreed with him about it being a diminishing return especially if Free was to die tomorrow, does that make sense to you?
You can say that about any position. What if Tyrone Crawford died tomorrow? What if Carr and Scandrick ran off the road after a party? What if Lee stepped on a tac or McClain leaves to join the circus? What if Dez doesnt come back from this surgery? What if Byron Jones gets caught with drugs? You keep trying to focus on Free but actually we are able to cover the loss of Free easier with Colllins or Martin than we are at any other position.

You mentioned Irving and Jack Crawford (I believe) but really what have they done in the past to warrant spending yet another high pick on the OLine?

As far as the other stuff I will continue to do what I do. I crack myself up and a few others at times.
 

DLK150

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Correct, most of the reputable scouting sites don't have their final scouting reports out yet. But a player with good hands his sophomore year doesn't get bad hands his junior year.

Just to be clear. I am by no means a Notre Dame fan. I just was really impressed by this kid when I watched him. He was the one player on that Notre Dame offense that really stood out. What impressed me most when I watched him was that I expected him to play like a small reciever. So when I saw him winning jump balls and catching fades I was really surprised and impressed. This isn't Phillip Dorsett for example who looked uncomfortable catching a ball.

Route running is his biggest issue. He is raw at it because of the offense. He ran a lot of screens and bombs and not a ton of other stuff.
I generally agree with you, I just don't think his hands are as good as you think. I think he still has some ceiling to his game but I just don't think he's what you would call elite. I wouldn't hate spending a 3rd round pick on him but IMO, he's not a 1st/2nd round guy. I was more surprised and impressed by him in 2014 than 2015 because he didn't display that 2nd gear in limited action in 2013 as a freshman. It was really unexpected, sort of like CJ Prosise this year. A lot of fans saw some potential in him at RB after some success running jet sweeps in 2014 but pretty much no one thought he would turn into a 1,000 yard back. I think there is potential with both players but not early round potential. Again, JMO.
 

Clay_Allison

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Ok you saying Tunsil is a marginal improvement is baffling to start and from what I read Tunsil is Kipers number 2 overall prospect and he is a consensus top 4 across the board, any basic research shows that.

You bring up Erick Fisher I can bring up Mike Williams, Ryan Leaf, Claiborne, Arron Curry, Vernon Gholston etc. None of these positions are immune from busting, so I don't know how he is not worth the risk but others are.

The fact that you bring up Ramsey is really funny he is a clear high bust rate type prospect.
If Tunsil is as good as advertised I pick him up and dump Free if no Elite QB is available. No problem. We get 5 years of the guy on a structured salary and he could potentially be Erik Williams-like on the right side. Why the hell not. Maybe Romo gets to live another year.
 

Clay_Allison

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Ok you are parsing words now all of these rankings are subject to change but as of now Tunsil is the higher rated prospect.

So it's ok to reach for a DT at 4 over a player who is rated higher?

And we are not stacked at RT, Free is a declining player and there is a huge ? mark after him.

Anyway I see we just disagree on the talent gap at those positions.
For a change I completely agree with you. I see no problem with just having a tank column of an offensive line. 5 years of pro bowl play potentially without having to pay pro bowl money? Hell yeah, I'll do that. Every good player on an offensive line makes everyone else on that line that much better. The returns aren't diminishing, they are exponential.

I'm not a Super Bowl winning coach like skid, but I was close to the coaching staffs at two high schools when I was teaching and I used to play "chalkboard war" with Coach Jerry Burkhardt who has won multiple state titles in 6 man ( [MENTION=19]skidadl[/MENTION] ) can back me up on this. Every time he argued about my defense versus his offense it was that he thought his Offensive Lineman could make the blocks. That's the key, blocking is the key. When Tom Landry threw out Vince Lombardi's playbook and re-wrote it he did so, so that every play was designed to score a touchdown if perfectly executed. That's all about blocking, that's all about getting the one guy free to the end zone.

Having 5 pro bowl OLs is the offensive equivalent to "defense wins championships".
 
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boozeman

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LSU OT Jerald Hawkins
Auburn OT Shon Coleman
Florida S Keanu Neal
Mississippi State OLB Benitez Brown
West Virginia RB Wendell Smallwood
Florida State K Roberto Aguayo
Georgia OLB Leonard Floyd
 

Jiggyfly

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You can say that about any position. What if Tyrone Crawford died tomorrow? What if Carr and Scandrick ran off the road after a party? What if Lee stepped on a tac or McClain leaves to join the circus? What if Dez doesnt come back from this surgery? What if Byron Jones gets caught with drugs? You keep trying to focus on Free but actually we are able to cover the loss of Free easier with Colllins or Martin than we are at any other position.

You mentioned Irving and Jack Crawford (I believe) but really what have they done in the past to warrant spending yet another high pick on the OLine?

As far as the other stuff I will continue to do what I do. I crack myself up and a few others at times.
This is the last thing I am going to say on this.

None of those other what ifs make sense in this discussion because there are no replacements in this draft who are as highly rated as Tunsil.

My argument the entire time about Tunsil is that he seems to be the last blue chip type prospect after the two QB's and Bosa.

If there was a DT or LB or WR rated as highly as Tunsil I would have zero issue but there seems to be a drop off after those top 4 guys.

This entire discussion is about the talent available in this draft and maximizing the pick with BPA, yes there are other positions that need more attention but as of now you would be reaching which used to be a big no no around here.

As I have said before this is all bound to change as the draft gets closer but right now Tunsil would be the highest rated player and should be a top candidate for the pick.
 

Rev

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And I would counter that the drop off (if any) is minimal enough that I would be fine with a Treadwell or Jack. I will just leave it at that and let the thread get back to where it needs to go. Carry on.
 

Cowboysrock55

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We get 5 years of the guy on a structured salary and he could potentially be Erik Williams-like on the right side. Why the hell not.
When you put it like this it makes it sound like you're not investing a shit ton of resources into the guy. The problem is there are two types of resources you invest in an NFL player. There is salary cap dollars which is what you're referring to and there are also draft picks. The 4th overall pick in a draft is a shit ton of resources. The fourth overall pick in a draft should be an elite cornerstone player for your franchise for the next decade. It's why teams put such a value on such a high pick. Just pointing out that you're not getting Tunsil for cheap for 5 years. You're actually paying a hefty premium for him. Which is justifiable if he makes our offensiveline a lot better.
 

Angrymesscan

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In Madden terms:

Your OL is a 94 as is, Tunsil (92) makes it a 96. 2 point increase.
Your DL is a 79, A top píck (87) can make it an 86. 7 point increase.
Your WRs are a 76 Treadwell (90) makes them a 88. 12 point increase.
Your LBs are a 80, Jack/Smith (89) makes them an 85. 5 point increase.

Better player yet doesn't improve the unit as much, hence - diminishing returns.
 

GForce78NJ

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In Madden terms:

Your OL is a 94 as is, Tunsil (92) makes it a 96. 2 point increase.
Your DL is a 79, A top píck (87) can make it an 86. 7 point increase.
Your WRs are a 76 Treadwell (90) makes them a 88. 12 point increase.
Your LBs are a 80, Jack/Smith (89) makes them an 85. 5 point increase.

Better player yet doesn't improve the unit as much, hence - diminishing returns.
Wat
 

Jiggyfly

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In Madden terms:

Your OL is a 94 as is, Tunsil (92) makes it a 96. 2 point increase.
Your DL is a 79, A top píck (87) can make it an 86. 7 point increase.
Your WRs are a 76 Treadwell (90) makes them a 88. 12 point increase.
Your LBs are a 80, Jack/Smith (89) makes them an 85. 5 point increase.

Better player yet doesn't improve the unit as much, hence - diminishing returns.
Really?
 

Cotton

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Jaylon Smith LB Notre Dame
 

GForce78NJ

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Jaylon Smith LB Notre Dame
Don't know if this is a smart move even if he is expected to make a full recovery. He won't be able to compete in the combine so someone is going to just have to take a risk on him. He stays and performs well he is a top 10 pick next year
 
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