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Thread: President Trump Thread...

  1. #6541
    Senior Member Kbrown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by townsend View Post
    To be fair though, you said this about virtually every breaking news story during the first week of the Mueller investigation.

  2. #6542
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    So, when Cohen is interviewed and still nothing comes out of it, that will be the end of it, right?

    Right?

    Guys?
    2016 DCC LOTY Fantasy Football Champion

  3. #6543
    Banned townsend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamtdg View Post
    So, when Cohen is interviewed and still nothing comes out of it, that will be the end of it, right?

    Right?

    Guys?
    So what’s he cooperating with? Between him & Paddopoulis & Flynn & Gates they have to be getting something out of these sweetheart deals.

    I will say if Cohen doesn’t have anything on Trump, there’s probably nothing. That being said, if Trump were 1000% guilty he can’t he indicted, and removal from office would unlikely, since I don’t know if there are 18 Republican Senators that would convict if Trump shot a man on the senate floor.

    But I think that Trump will be named as an unindicted conspirator in Mueller’s final report thanks to this, and now Republicans have to choose which pieces to sacrifice during the end game. Since their gutlessness and unwillingness to check Trump has cost them approx. 20 points on ballots since 2016.

    If they shrug after the full report comes out, and Trump still gets nothing more than mild guarded criticism from GOP brass, 2020 will be a blood bath the GOP will have a very tough time recovering from.

  4. #6544
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BipolarFan View Post
    What about the outrage on the right for Obama going to Cuba?

    Oh my fucking god they screamed, the government in Cuba commits countless atrocities against their people!!!

    They are fucking amateurs compared to North Korea.
    Not me, I applauded Obama on the Cuba thing.

  5. #6545
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
    Not me, I applauded Obama on the Cuba thing.
    Same here.
    2016 DCC LOTY Fantasy Football Champion

  6. #6546
    El Presidente' skidadl's Avatar
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    So republicans think Trump is innocent and the dems thing he is guilty? I never would have guessed that...

  7. #6547
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by townsend View Post
    So what’s he cooperating with?
    Cooperating doesn't mean turning evidence over on other suspects, necessarily, and even if it did, we don't know if it's Trump, or his family like Kushner, or other associates.

    Between him & Paddopoulis & Flynn & Gates they have to be getting something out of these sweetheart deals.
    I'm sure they are but the bottom line remains that there is still nothing that has been leaked that points any kind of smoking gun at Trump; and quite frankly, literally EVERYTHING that has come out -- the Facebook Russia ads, the dumbass back channel meetings looking for "dirt" on Clinton, etc, all seem to indicate to me that there were no crimes committed, other than "technical" crimes, like, oh, maybe Cohen paying Stormy Daniels is a campaign finance violation.

    So far. Pending further information.

    I will say if Cohen doesn’t have anything on Trump, there’s probably nothing. That being said, if Trump were 1000% guilty he can’t he indicted, and removal from office would unlikely, since I don’t know if there are 18 Republican Senators that would convict if Trump shot a man on the senate floor.

    But I think that Trump will be named as an unindicted conspirator in Mueller’s final report thanks to this, and now Republicans have to choose which pieces to sacrifice during the end game. Since their gutlessness and unwillingness to check Trump has cost them approx. 20 points on ballots since 2016.

    If they shrug after the full report comes out, and Trump still gets nothing more than mild guarded criticism from GOP brass, 2020 will be a blood bath the GOP will have a very tough time recovering from.
    Would probably cost them 2020 but I doubt very much it'd be unrecoverable. The Clinton impeachment didn't cost the Democrats long term.

  8. #6548
    Banned townsend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
    Cooperating doesn't mean turning evidence over on other suspects, necessarily, and even if it did, we don't know if it's Trump, or his family like Kushner, or other associates.



    I'm sure they are but the bottom line remains that there is still nothing that has been leaked that points any kind of smoking gun at Trump; and quite frankly, literally EVERYTHING that has come out -- the Facebook Russia ads, the dumbass back channel meetings looking for "dirt" on Clinton, etc, all seem to indicate to me that there were no crimes committed, other than "technical" crimes, like, oh, maybe Cohen paying Stormy Daniels is a campaign finance violation.

    So far. Pending further information.



    Would probably cost them 2020 but I doubt very much it'd be unrecoverable. The Clinton impeachment didn't cost the Democrats long term.
    I would say it cost them more than we realize. At least 800 or so votes in Florida. Which Translates to 2 wars and a few Scotus seats.

    Honestly I think that the moral low ground Dems seized in the 90s was one of the reasons Bush enjoyed some pretty high approval ratings and control of congress till 06. People talk about rally around the flag helping him, and God knows it did. But I think a lot of independents were ready to trust him because of how much fatigue Clinton’s 2nd term had subjected on the country. Not every president would have the population willing to rally after that tragedy.

    Trump fatigue will be far more intense. Mueller has a lot more credibility with the public than Ken Starr did. If he did committ a crime worth impeaching, it’ll probably be a much bigger one than lying under oath. (Even with Democrats in control I doubt obstruction would be enough to force impeachment.)

    This of course will all happen right before a census and all the new districts get redrawn. So Dems have a chance to climb back at a pretty fortuitous time. (Much like Republicans did in 2010, and guaranteed themselves at least 8 years in control of the house).
    Last edited by townsend; 06-13-2018 at 05:26 PM.

  9. #6549
    Senior Member BipolarFan's Avatar
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  10. #6550
    Senior Member fortsbest's Avatar
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    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght-president/

    James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    Both FBI directors opposed their presidents. Only one did it the right way.
    President Bill Clinton talks to FBI Director Louis Freeh during Freeh's swearing
    ceremony as director at FBI Headquarters in Washington on Sept. 1, 1993. (AP
    Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 2/13
    Jim Comey is not the ærst former FBI director to despise a president and accuse him of
    hindering justice. Louis Freeh made even harsher and more substantive charges against
    Bill Clinton related to Clinton’s role in the FBI investigation of the Khobar Towers
    terrorist bombing. By comparing Comey and Freeh, we can consider the right (and
    wrong) way to oppose a president, and put Comey’s own complaints into better
    historical perspective.
    Louis Freeh was appointed to head the FBI by Bill Clinton in 1993 and retired in 2001,
    under George W. Bush. Freeh wrote about his experience – and his intense anger at
    Clinton – in a signed Wall Street Journal essay in 2006 and in his book, “My FBI:
    Bringing Down the Maæa, Investigating Bill Clinton, and Fighting the War on Terror
    published by St. Martin’s Press in 2005. (The quotes in this piece are all taken from
    Freeh’s book.)
    In 1992, a newly elected President Clinton æred FBI Director William Sessions in year
    six of Sessions’ 10-year term, and chose Freeh. Clinton had accused Sessions of ethical
    lapses such as çying frequently to San Francisco on FBI business where his daughter
    danced in the ballet.
    “Bill Sessions is an honorable man and I still think the case against him was mostly
    bunk,” wrote Freeh in his book, “but blood was in the water, and the capital was buzzing
    that the new administration was trying to politicize the Bureau. The president had
    wanted to replace Sessions with his old Oxford pal, Richard Stearns … Before he could
    do so, though, the ærst of many Clinton scandals (Travelgate) bubbled up from far down
    in the bureaucracy.” Clinton felt compelled to avoid his own circle of friends, and Freeh
    got the job instead.
    Louis Freeh was born 1950 and began his career as an FBI agent. He later became an
    assistant United States attorney, famous as lead prosecutor in the “Pizza Connection”
    organized crime investigation. He was appointed a U.S. district judge for the Southern
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 3/13
    District of New York by President George H.W. Bush. Judge Freeh was sworn in as FBI
    director – the nation’s æfth ever – on Sept. 1, 1993.
    U.S. and Saudi military personnel survey the damage to Khobar Towers caused by the explosion of a fuel truck June 25,
    1996. (Getty Images)
    On June 25, 1996, terrorists parked a fuel tanker truck just outside the wall of the Abdul
    Aziz Air Base in Saudi Arabia. The truck was placed adjacent to the eight-story military
    dormitory known as the Khobar Towers, which housed U.S. military personnel enforcing
    the no-çy zone in Iraq. The terrorists left the scene in other cars, and minutes later, the
    fuel truck “bomb” exploded with the power of 20,000 tons of TNT, leaving a crater 35
    feet deep and 85 feet wide. Nineteen U.S. service personnel were killed, and 372 people
    were wounded. Only quick work by a U.S. sentry who saw the parked fuel truck and
    rushed to evacuate the building kept the death toll from being far worse.
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 4/13
    The FBI had speciæc extraterritorial jurisdiction over cases of bombings where
    Americans had been killed. One hundred and æfty FBI agents were quickly dispatched to
    the Saudi crime scene, with Freeh among them. They sifted in 115-degree heat through
    the human remains and mementos of the dead (“hairbrushes, photo frames, …”) spread
    in the sand around the blast site. “The unique smell of decaying human çesh” Freeh
    wrote, “was overwhelming, especially in the intense heat, but there was no way to hurry
    retrieval. The evidentiary needs were too great.”
    The Khobar Towers case would become the case that meant more to Freeh than any
    other. It would also be the subject of the ærst and most important chapter of his book.
    Freeh’s overwhelming message: Clinton, Gore and the Clinton administration
    obstructed the FBI’s pursuit of justice in the Khobar Towers case.
    According to Freeh’s memoirs, when Freeh returned from the initial visit to the bomb
    site, he sought and received conærmation from the Clinton White House that they
    would back him up as he pursued his investigation. Freeh writes, “The Bureau, I was
    assured, had the president’s complete cooperation and authority on this. I remember
    the phrase exactly because the administration was still repeating it three years later: we
    were to leave ‘no stone unturned’ in ænding the killers and bringing them to justice.
    Trouble was, the administration’s actions didn’t come close to matching its rhetoric.”
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 5/13
    Heavily-armed law enforcement of㧔cers in a caravan carrying Hani Abdel Rahim Hussein al-Sayegh arrive at an FBI facility
    Tuesday night, June 17, 1997, in Washington. (AP Photo/Brian K. Diggs)
    In March 1997, Canadian authorities acting on a tip from the Saudis arrested Hani AlSayegh,
    who had been one of the drivers of the terrorist escape cars at Khobar and who
    had been living illegally in Canada. Under questioning, Al-Sayegh admitted he had been
    a member of a Saudi-based Hezbollah cell that carried out the attack, and that he had
    been recruited for the cell by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.
    Soon after, the Syrians turned over to the Saudis another suspect named Mustafa alQassab,
    who was also a member of the Iranian-backed Hezbollah cell. Other evidence
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 6/13
    also pointed toward Iran and Hezbollah, including private comments by outgoing
    Iranian president Hashemi Rafsanjani to the Saudi crown prince Abdullah.
    “A blind pig couldn’t have missed the outlines,” writes Freeh, “but to çesh out the
    connections and put the dots together, we needed permission for FBI agents to sit in on
    and help conduct the questioning of suspects held in Saudi custody.” Given the
    complexities of Saudi sovereignty and Islamic law, that could only happen if Clinton
    and the White House pressed the Saudis to gain this permission. “In the White House,
    though, and at the State Department in Foggy Bottom,” Freeh writes, “interest was
    headed in another direction.”
    In Freeh’s account, Clinton and his administration wanted to appease Iran and so
    intentionally withheld the investigative support that the FBI desperately needed. Again
    and again, Freeh reports, Clinton and Gore failed to make the strong request of
    cooperation that the FBI required. Says Freeh, “(W)e would wait. And wait. And nothing
    would happen … Prince Bandar (the Saudi ambassador who was supportive of Freeh and
    waiting for the request) would shake his head the next time I saw him and wonder why
    Clinton or Gore had failed to raise the matter in anything like an urgent way.”
    In September 1997, Clinton’s Justice Department moved to dismiss the indictment the
    FBI had obtained against Al-Sayegh, in part because –since the FBI had not interviewed
    the Hezbollah cell members held in Saudi – there were not enough corroborating
    witnesses. Of course in Freeh’s opinion, the FBI lacked permission to interview cell
    members in Saudi because of Clinton and Gore’s refusal to support. Says Freeh, “the
    almost celebratory attitude at the White House sat poorly with me.”
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 7/13
    Hani al-Sayegh, right, and his attorney, Michael Wildes, are shown in this undated handout
    photo from the Justice Department. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)
    As months and years went by, the Khobar military families became more frustrated, and
    so did Freeh. Freeh writes, “When one woman, the mother of a thirty-æve year old
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 8/13
    master sergeant who had died in the attack, asked why we let the Saudis get away with
    withholding information and access, I told her that I was a policeman, not a politician.”
    Freeh kept pressing the administration to make a strong access request. Finally, when
    Crown Prince Abdulah came to Washington, D.C. for six days and took over the entire
    143-room Hay-Adams Hotel, the FBI director thought he would ænally have his chance.
    But, Freeh writes, when Clinton had his key meeting with the prince, “Bill Clinton
    brieçy raised the subject only to tell the crown prince that he certainly understood the
    Saudi’s reluctance to cooperate. Then, according to my sources, he hit Abdullah up for
    a contribution to the still-to-be-built Clinton presidential library. Gore, who was
    supposed to press hardest of all in his meeting with the crown prince, barely mentioned
    the matter, I was told.”
    Eventually, Freeh gave up any hope in Clinton and Gore, and appealed to former
    president George H. W. Bush to make the access request in one of Bush’s own meetings
    with the Saudis. Within hours of Bush’s intervention, Freeh was invited with his team
    to meet the Crown Prince personally and a solution was quickly found. The FBI could
    prepare questions which would be asked by Saudi ofæcials, consistent with Islamic law,
    and the FBI would be allowed to monitor the answers.
    In November 1998, 212 questions were put to detainees in Saudi as FBI agents watched
    the responses from behind a one-way mirror. “The answers, along with the new
    materials and information we had previously uncovered or been handed by the Saudis,
    showed almost beyond doubt that the Khobar attacks had been sanctioned, funded and
    directed by senior ofæcials of the government of Iran.”
    But to Freeh’s dismay, when he reported his ændings to Clinton’s team in the West Wing
    situation room, the meeting devolved into a discussion of how to cover the ændings up.
    “I thought that we were meeting to discuss what our next move would be, given the fact
    that we now had solid evidence that Iranians, with involvement at the highest ofæcial
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 9/13
    levels, had blown up nineteen Americans. But I was wrong. The meeting started with
    how to deal with the press and with Congress, should news of the Iranian involvement
    in the Khobar murders leak out of the room. … In the eight years I was to spend as FBI
    director, there was nothing to match that moment in the situation room for sheer
    disappointment.”
    Freeh continued to pursue the matter, and – when George W. Bush became president,
    just before the æve-year statute of limitations took effect – a federal grand jury returned
    a 46 count indictment against 14 defendants for the bombing of the towers and the
    murder of 19 Americans. (Ironically, the prosecutor working with Freeh on the case?
    James Comey.)
    FBI Director Louis Freeh announces June 21, 2001 at the FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C., the indictments of 13 Saudi
    nationals and one Lebanese national in connection with the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing that killed 19 American
    servicemen in Saudi Arabia. (Mark Wilson/Getty Images)
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 10/13
    The Saudis held 11 of the 14 suspects in custody, and would not extradite them. Their
    fate in the Saudi criminal system is unknown, but the common assumption is that they
    have been executed. In September 2015, it was reported that Ahmed al-Mughassil, the
    alleged mastermind of the plot who had been named in the indictments, had been
    arrested by the Saudis as well. None of the indicted have ever come to trial in the U.S.
    Meanwhile, the Iranians (and some American analysts) seek to blame al-Qaeda instead.
    So, how does Comey compare to Freeh? Clinton to Trump? Khobar Towers to Russian
    Collusion-gate? And how has the media handled each incident?
    In every aspect, Freeh’s criticisms of Clinton appear to be far more serious and
    substantive than Comey’s attacks on Trump, and yet in every instance, the media’s
    treatment of the two matters has been exactly in reverse. Freeh also demonstrates the
    proper way for an FBI director to behave, in sharp contrast to Comey.
    First, there was a clear and substantive crime at the heart of the Khobar Towers
    incident: the terrorist murder of 19 Americans and the wounding of hundreds more. It
    is still unclear if there was any criminal collusion between Trump’s campaign with
    Russia at all, or if there was any substantive crime to be investigated in the ærst place.
    Second, a president’s efforts to please a hostile foreign government appear much
    stronger with Clinton-Iran than Trump-Russia. Clinton appears to have wanted
    peaceful relations with Iran (a policy decision which is in a president’s proper powers)
    and Trump has stated that he would prefer that the U.S. have peaceful relations with
    Russia. Yet somehow Trump is portrayed as wrong or even traitorous to say so, even as
    Trump has opposed Russia in action: providing lethal arms to the Ukrainians in
    December 2017 that Obama would previously not provide; sanctioning Russian
    oligarchs and Putin’s cronies in April 2018; and allowing U.S. troops to engage in direct
    combat against “Russian military contractors” in Syria on Feb. 7, 2018, which reportedly
    killed 200 to 300 Syrian-regime forces with Russians among them.
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 11/13
    Third, Freeh himself behaved much more properly than Comey. Both raised protests
    against the presidents and administrations under which they served, but Freeh made his
    protests openly and consistent with the rules of the FBI, while Comey used subterfuge
    and acted outside of the rules of the FBI.
    Former FBI Director James Comey poses for photographs as he arrives to speak about his new book “A Higher Loyalty:
    Truth, Lies, and Leadership” at Barnes & Noble bookstore, April 18, 2018 in New York City. (Drew Angerer/Getty Images)
    Freeh’s writings had been properly vetted by the FBI before they were released. Comey –
    in sharp contrast – famously told Trump according to Comey’s own memos
    leak. I don’t do weasel moves,” and then in fact secretly handed his materials to a law
    professor crony, to be handed to the press. (A “leak” in any common usage of the term.)
    Comey has said that he sought to get his information out to trigger an investigation by a
    special prosecutor. This investigation is now underway and has been helping to tear
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 12/13
    America apart at the spiritual seams for almost two years now, with little or nothing of
    substance to show for it. If “Blessed be the peacemakers,” then the opposite must be
    true for any ofæcial who secretly sows national discord through his own personal vanity
    and pride.
    In making his leaks, Comey appears to have clearly violated the FBI Employment
    Agreement (form FD-291) which states “(3.) I will not reveal, by any means, any
    information or material from or related to FBI æles or any other information acquired by
    virtue of my ofæcial employment to any unauthorized recipient without prior ofæcial
    written authorization by the FBI…(7) Violations of this employment agreement may
    constitute cause for revocation of my security clearance, subject me to criminal
    sanctions, disciplinary action by the FBI, including dismissal … and the disgorging of
    any proæts arising from any unauthorized publication or disclosure.” The FBI agreement
    covers all materials, not just those marked classiæed.
    The materials that Comey sent to the press through his friend were clearly acquired by
    virtue of his role at the FBI. By using leaks and triggering the press rumors and special
    prosecutor investigation, Comey created rocket fuel to increase the sale of his book and
    the royalties he receives. He has ænancially proæted from his breach.
    It is critically important that FBI directors do speak truth to power, and do call out any
    president who acts improperly, just as Louis Freeh does in his book and press essay. But
    they should “speak,” not “sneak,” and they should defend their opinions openly, not
    through subterfuge and friends one step removed. Nor should FBI Directors write
    memos against a president that they keep secret if the president employs them but
    release if the president æres them, for this is simply a form of presidential blackmail of
    the very type that ruined J. Edgar Hoover’s place in history.
    Comey’s book has been called “A Higher Royalty.” The FBI agreement permits
    disgorgement of such royalties to the extent they were fueled by FBI-related materials
    6/13/2018 James Comey Vs. Louis Freeh: How to Fight a President
    http://www.realclearlife.com/politic...ght*president/ 13/13
    © 2017 RealClearLife.com. All Rights Reserved.
    released without ofæcial authorization. It may be just and fair to return these royalties
    to the FBI, which Comey has so badly damaged.

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