10 dead in Oregon Community College shooting

I can't For one minute think that the fact people own guns is tied directly or indirectly to the actions of the individuals who committed these atrocities. Humans are owners of a lot of things and are perfectly compatible with a content and conforming life. The only correlation you can make for someone who commits these acts is they are disturbed and would be a menace with something even if there were no guns available. I am not a gun advocate but it is a delusion to think curbing firearms is a solution to curbing disturbed individuals.

L.T. Fan said:

I can't For one minute think that the fact people own guns is tied directly or indirectly to the actions of the individuals who committed these atrocities. Humans are owners of a lot of things and are perfectly compatible with a content and conforming life. The only correlation you can make for someone who commits these acts is they are disturbed and would be a menace with something even if there were no guns available. I am not a gun advocate but it is a delusion to think curbing firearms is a solution to curbing disturbed individuals.

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Correct.

The first thing that needs to be passed is a law that hands out a mandatory life sentence for anyone with a criminal record caught selling or possessing a gun. No chance for parole.

Then you allow the background checks to also access mental health records and drug/addiction records. Hold family members or others responsible who knowingly allow another family member who has known issues to borrow or buy a gun without reporting it to authorities. To be effective, family members would need to face prison time.

That at a minimum would cut down a lot of the issues. Then, you'd have to pass some sort of age restriction for ownership- say maybe 25 years old in order to cut more into the crazy killing sprees.

There is not ever going to be a blanket law or movement to stop these crazies from going on a killing spree. But I do believe it can be bettered without infringing on the rights of normal law abiding gun owners.

UncleMilti said:

The first thing that needs to be passed is a law that hands out a mandatory life sentence for anyone with a criminal record caught selling or possessing a gun. No chance for parole.

Then you allow the background checks to also access mental health records and drug/addiction records. Hold family members or others responsible who knowingly allow another family member who has known issues to borrow or buy a gun without reporting it to authorities. To be effective, family members would need to face prison time.

That at a minimum would cut down a lot of the issues. Then, you'd have to pass some sort of age restriction for ownership- say maybe 25 years old in order to cut more into the crazy killing sprees.

There is not ever going to be a blanket law or movement to stop these crazies from going on a killing spree. But I do believe it can be bettered without infringing on the rights of normal law abiding gun owners.

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Too bad for you that your fantasies are unenforceable. If big daddy government enacts a police state to try to enforce that Draconian garbage, the black market for firearms will thrive like never before and rightfully so.

shane said:

Too bad for you that your fantasies are unenforceable. If big daddy government enacts a police state to try to enforce that Draconian garbage, the black market for firearms will thrive like never before and rightfully so.

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You mean, just like if there were gun bans put in place?

UncleMilti said:

The first thing that needs to be passed is a law that hands out a mandatory life sentence for anyone with a criminal record caught selling or possessing a gun. No chance for parole.

Then you allow the background checks to also access mental health records and drug/addiction records. Hold family members or others responsible who knowingly allow another family member who has known issues to borrow or buy a gun without reporting it to authorities. To be effective, family members would need to face prison time.

That at a minimum would cut down a lot of the issues. Then, you'd have to pass some sort of age restriction for ownership- say maybe 25 years old in order to cut more into the crazy killing sprees.

There is not ever going to be a blanket law or movement to stop these crazies from going on a killing spree. But I do believe it can be bettered without infringing on the rights of normal law abiding gun owners.

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I can get on board with all of this and it's great to have a gun enthusiast as yourself willing to talk about doing things to actually try and make a difference.

I don't understand this all or nothing mentality on both sides.

How did you come through the flooding did you get hit bad?

shane said:

Too bad for you that your fantasies are unenforceable. If big daddy government enacts a police state to try to enforce that Draconian garbage, the black market for firearms will thrive like never before and rightfully so.

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What is draconian about anything he said?

Either you have no understanding of the word or you are just a NRA mark.

Jiggyfly said:

What is draconian about anything he said?

Either you have no understanding of the word or you are just a NRA mark.

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His ideas are stupid, unconstitutional and unenforceable.

And it's called having basic common sense, and not being a spineless coward shaking in your boots begging big daddy government to save you. It's a good thing you've already lost this battle. Americans have their guns, and ALWAYS will no matter how much you whine.

UncleMilti said:

The first thing that needs to be passed is a law that hands out a mandatory life sentence for anyone with a criminal record caught selling or possessing a gun. No chance for parole.

Then you allow the background checks to also access mental health records and drug/addiction records. Hold family members or others responsible who knowingly allow another family member who has known issues to borrow or buy a gun without reporting it to authorities. To be effective, family members would need to face prison time.

That at a minimum would cut down a lot of the issues. Then, you'd have to pass some sort of age restriction for ownership- say maybe 25 years old in order to cut more into the crazy killing sprees.

There is not ever going to be a blanket law or movement to stop these crazies from going on a killing spree. But I do believe it can be bettered without infringing on the rights of normal law abiding gun owners.

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First of all I would never support that type of an invasion into confidential medical records.

Beyond that, what you did accomplishes nothing in protecting people from shootings. The people shooting up schools don't have criminal histories and most of the time they get their guns from someone else. If you are committing a mass murder and know you're going to end up dead at the end of it, do you really think they will care about some type of lifetime prison sentence for carrying a gun? Or care if they steal the fire arm from their grandpa's closet?

This is the problem with crazy over the top gun regulation like this. It really doesn't accomplish any of the intended goals and makes good people serious criminal offenders. The reason the cities with some of the strictest gun laws have some of the highest shooting rates is because guns are still widely available and the laws themselves have no impact. The only way to reduce gun violence in America is to eliminate guns in the population all together. If the guns are still out there, people who want to commit mass murders will have no problem finding them.

Cowboysrock55 said:

This is the problem with crazy over the top gun regulation like this. It really doesn't accomplish any of the intended goals and makes good people serious criminal offenders. The reason the cities with some of the strictest gun laws have some of the highest shooting rates is because guns are still widely available and the laws themselves have no impact. The only way to reduce gun violence in America is to eliminate guns in the population all together. If the guns are still out there, people who want to commit mass murders will have no problem finding them.

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The problem is, you can tell people "You can't have guns" and then the criminals will go out on the black market and get guns anyway. I mean, meth is illegal yet millions of American do meth on a daily basis.

shane said:

His ideas are stupid, unconstitutional and unenforceable.

And it's called having basic common sense, and not being a spineless coward shaking in your boots begging big daddy government to save you. It's a good thing you've already lost this battle. Americans have their guns, and ALWAYS will no matter how much you whine.

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You by the way used the term correctly when it relates to handing out life time jail sentences for a victim-less crime. It's basically the definition of a draconian law.

Iamtdg said:

The problem is, you can tell people "You can't have guns" and then the criminals will go out on the black market and get guns anyway. I mean, meth is illegal yet millions of American do meth on a daily basis.

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Well I will say this though, guns are much more difficult to produce then meth. Of course much of the meth in the United States is still produced abroad which is the problem you would see with guns regardless.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Well I will say this though, guns are much more difficult to produce then meth. Of course much of the meth in the United States is still produced abroad which is the problem you would see with guns regardless.

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Yeah, the guns sold on the black market now aren't produced anywhere close to the point of sale. The majority are brought over. And if we banned guns, that market would flourish.

Cowboysrock55 said:

First of all I would never support that type of an invasion into confidential medical records.

Beyond that, what you did accomplishes nothing in protecting people from shootings. The people shooting up schools don't have criminal histories and most of the time they get their guns from someone else. If you are committing a mass murder and know you're going to end up dead at the end of it, do you really think they will care about some type of lifetime prison sentence for carrying a gun? Or care if they steal the fire arm from their grandpa's closet?

This is the problem with crazy over the top gun regulation like this. It really doesn't accomplish any of the intended goals and makes good people serious criminal offenders. The reason the cities with some of the strictest gun laws have some of the highest shooting rates is because guns are still widely available and the laws themselves have no impact. The only way to reduce gun violence in America is to eliminate guns in the population all together. If the guns are still out there, people who want to commit mass murders will have no problem finding them.

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The thing that sticks in my head is the Boston bombers didn't need guns. Any asshole who finds it difficult to get a gun can come up with some plans to create a bomb on the internet. Even a coffee can full of black powder and ball bearings chucked into a crowd could cause massive damage. Guns are just their current weapon of choice.

shane said:

His ideas are stupid, unconstitutional and unenforceable.

And it's called having basic common sense, and not being a spineless coward shaking in your boots begging big daddy government to save you. It's a good thing you've already lost this battle. Americans have their guns, and ALWAYS will no matter how much you whine.

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Nothing in there is unconstitutional, Felons are already penalized for having weapons and 3 strikes is already on the books as a punitive life sentence.

You are the one being stupid it shows you have no idea of what is actually in the constitution or what is actually a current enforecable law.

The only thing that's even different than what is already enforceable is the mandatory life sentence.

Cowboysrock55 said:

First of all I would never support that type of an invasion into confidential medical records.

Beyond that, what you did accomplishes nothing in protecting people from shootings. The people shooting up schools don't have criminal histories and most of the time they get their guns from someone else. If you are committing a mass murder and know you're going to end up dead at the end of it, do you really think they will care about some type of lifetime prison sentence for carrying a gun? Or care if they steal the fire arm from their grandpa's closet?

This is the problem with crazy over the top gun regulation like this. It really doesn't accomplish any of the intended goals and makes good people serious criminal offenders. The reason the cities with some of the strictest gun laws have some of the highest shooting rates is because guns are still widely available and the laws themselves have no impact. The only way to reduce gun violence in America is to eliminate guns in the population all together. If the guns are still out there, people who want to commit mass murders will have no problem finding them.

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You had me until the bolded part. Not only will that never happen, it's a fantasy. Sure, if there were no guns, it would reduce GUN violence. But if people think that it would curb murders or violence in general, they're living in a dream world.

Mankind is pretty resourceful. There was violence and murders long before guns were around, and would continue if banishing guns was somehow possible. Unless we could also ban things like blunt objects, ropes, knives, anything that could make an explosive, sharp and pointy stabby things, the ability to choke a bitch, etc... Timothy McVeigh, the Chinese bus stop killings, Sept. 11, 2001, Boston Marathon bombers, etc... And there are many more examples. Those are just recent and came to mind.

Jiggyfly said:

I can get on board with all of this and it's great to have a gun enthusiast as yourself willing to talk about doing things to actually try and make a difference.

I don't understand this all or nothing mentality on both sides.

How did you come through the flooding did you get hit bad?

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there is always a middle ground for everything. I am a lifetime NRA member, and as big of a proponent for the right to bear arms as anyone you'll ever meet. But even I see that something has to be done to stem the terrible killings that are taking place in this country.

Yes, we got hit pretty bad down here..many of my friends have lost their homes or at the very least, most of their possessions. Very sad indeed.

Cowboysrock55 said:

First of all I would never support that type of an invasion into confidential medical records.

Beyond that, what you did accomplishes nothing in protecting people from shootings. The people shooting up schools don't have criminal histories and most of the time they get their guns from someone else. If you are committing a mass murder and know you're going to end up dead at the end of it, do you really think they will care about some type of lifetime prison sentence for carrying a gun? Or care if they steal the fire arm from their grandpa's closet?

This is the problem with crazy over the top gun regulation like this. It really doesn't accomplish any of the intended goals and makes good people serious criminal offenders. The reason the cities with some of the strictest gun laws have some of the highest shooting rates is because guns are still widely available and the laws themselves have no impact. The only way to reduce gun violence in America is to eliminate guns in the population all together. If the guns are still out there, people who want to commit mass murders will have no problem finding them.

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Actually, it would do something.

94% of killings on the street are committed with stolen guns, or guns sold from one felon to another felon. Very little of the shootings that happen are with guns bought thru legal channels. 63% of the shootings in Chicago are committed by gangbangers who are out on parole...another 7% of shootings are 3 and 4 time convicts out on parole who are caught with stolen guns. Sorry, I see no issue with making sure people like that are behind bars for life. If you are in prison, its gonna be hard to buy a gun on the black market and kill someone.

Like I told Jiggy...I am all for the right to keep and bear arms, I am a huge gun lover and hunter...but where do you start holding people responsible?

Should there not be a law in place to keep mentally ill people from buying a firearm? If you are going to do a background check, then shouldn't ALL of a persons background be checked?

Its obvious with the latest rash of killings that the current background check system in place hasn't kept the Ex-newsguy and the Oregon killer from purchasing weapons legally. The newsguy had numerous run-ins with the law, and numerous problems at work. He had issues period. That's a problem, no matter how you want to spin it. The Oregon shooter's family all have said out in public that the guy had mental "issues", but yet no one had an issue with him owning a firearm.

There has to be compromise, because these shootings are not helping the Constitutional right to bear arms. The only thing the politicians know how to do is go after the innocent law abiding citizens...they aren't interested in going after the criminal element.

NoDak said:

You had me until the bolded part. Not only will that never happen, it's a fantasy. Sure, if there were no guns, it would reduce GUN violence. But if people think that it would curb murders or violence in general, they're living in a dream world.

Mankind is pretty resourceful. There was violence and murders long before guns were around, and would continue if banishing guns was somehow possible. Unless we could also ban things like blunt objects, ropes, knives, anything that could make an explosive, sharp and pointy stabby things, the ability to choke a bitch, etc... Timothy McVeigh, the Chinese bus stop killings, Sept. 11, 2001, Boston Marathon bombers, etc... And there are many more examples. Those are just recent and came to mind.

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I agree that it will never happen and that it is a complete fantasy. If you thought I was advocating for it, that was never my intent. My point is all of the additional regulation bullshit short of that won't do anyone any good. So looking at the regulation side of guns to curb killings in the United States is the wrong way to go about it.

I tend to agree with the concept that crazy people will find a way regardless. They will plow their car through a crowded area, create a pressure cooker bomb or whatever. They will find a way. I don't believe in the concept of enacting laws just to feel like we are doing something to curb violence when in reality we are accomplishing nothing.

Cowboysrock55 said:

You by the way used the term correctly when it relates to handing out life time jail sentences for a victim-less crime. It's basically the definition of a draconian law.

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So, have you listened to what Hillary wants to do?