The Curious Case of Charles Tapper

P_T

Baddest MoFo Around
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
2,058
R 5? There are no "Rs"... in descending order from the skull it is: C (cervical), T (thoracic), L (lumbar), S (sacral), and the coccix. Any problems with the sciatica usually involve L4-S3. If he had damage to S5, it should not have impeded control over his leg at all.
 

dallen

Senior Tech
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
8,466
Holy shit. A) That's scary. B) How was this missed in all the pre-draft medical screenings?
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
I think we should be going into this season expecting an all-time franchise worst defense.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
I think we should be going into this season expecting an all-time franchise worst defense.
Why?

The interior D-line and the secondary has been upgraded and the DE's are at least as good as they were in 2014.
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
Why?

The interior D-line and the secondary has been upgraded and the DE's are at least as good as they were in 2014.
We've had a lot more high profile "upgrades" over the last couple of years turn out landing flat. Melton and Hardy were mediocre contributors, so I'm not putting really high expectations on Cedric Thornton.

Fact is we have shit for depth at DE with just Irving, Jack Crawford, and Mayowa are all we've got, so they're not just gonna be jags, they'll be worn out jags.

Our DTs are still pretty meh. Tyrone Crawford hasn't proven he can stay healthy.

Bottom line Carr, Lee, T. Crawford and Jones are the only guys who would definitely be starting for another team.

Wilber, Hitchens, T. McClain, Claiborne, and Church are guys who're starting because we've been building the defense out of stop gap when our projected starters get injured, suspended, or just never live up to their draft grade.
 

UncleMilti

This seemed like a good idea at the time.
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
17,981
Why?

The interior D-line and the secondary has been upgraded and the DE's are at least as good as they were in 2014.

:lol

I hope you are being funny here.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
We've had a lot more high profile "upgrades" over the last couple of years turn out landing flat. Melton and Hardy were mediocre contributors, so I'm not putting really high expectations on Cedric Thornton.

Fact is we have shit for depth at DE with just Irving, Jack Crawford, and Mayowa are all we've got, so they're not just gonna be jags, they'll be worn out jags.

Our DTs are still pretty meh. Tyrone Crawford hasn't proven he can stay healthy.

Bottom line Carr, Lee, T. Crawford and Jones are the only guys who would definitely be starting for another team.

Wilber, Hitchens, T. McClain, Claiborne, and Church are guys who're starting because we've been building the defense out of stop gap when our projected starters get injured, suspended, or just never live up to their draft grade.
It's not the name, in any measure Thornton is an upgrade over Hayden and adding a talent like Collins to the rotation is also a plus.

Having Scandrick back and Jones FT at safety upgrades the secondary and that's without the better play by Claiborne and the rookie Brown.

I am not saying there is anything great about this defense just do not see where this all time worse stuff is coming from.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,453
I am not saying there is anything great about this defense just do not see where this all time worse stuff is coming from.
Reminds me a little of 2014 when everyone was thinking this would be an all time worst defense. They were bad in 2013 and then we had let guys like Demarcus Ware leave and the thought process was that somehow the defense would get even worse. There is a lot of reason to believe that 2016 could be a similar year based on a stout running game and a D-line built on a heavy rotation. D-Law will be back for week 5 and hell who knows, maybe Gregory will be as well.
 

BipolarFuk

Demoted
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
11,464
This defense is going to suck a cock.

And what's with Tapper? He getting younger instead of older or something?
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,453
The DEs. Mayowa and Jack Crawford? C'mon.
Jack Crawford is actually a pretty solid player. At least in the 2014 Jeremy Mincey type mold.

Mayowa is a place holder for 4 games unless he flashes something significant.
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
Jack Crawford is actually a pretty solid player. At least in the 2014 Jeremy Mincey type mold.

Mayowa is a place holder for 4 games unless he flashes something significant.
I would argue that the majority of our starting defense are placeholders. Wilber, Hitchens, Claiborne, Church, Irving, T. McClain, they're all JAGs. Hitchens might be the best of them and he'd probably be backing up Rolando if he hadn't popped on his drug test.

Worst of all this defense for misfit toys is looking to be mediocre at best, if we don't have more injury issues. Which is a pretty long shot. Odds are we're gonna end up incredibly depleted once the starters who should be backups get hurt and we don't have any decent backups.
 

UncleMilti

This seemed like a good idea at the time.
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
17,981
It's not the name, in any measure Thornton is an upgrade over Hayden and adding a talent like Collins to the rotation is also a plus.

Having Scandrick back and Jones FT at safety upgrades the secondary and that's without the better play by Claiborne and the rookie Brown.

I am not saying there is anything great about this defense just do not see where this all time worse stuff is coming from.
Dead serious.

Where am I wrong?
There is 0 pass rush, and I'm including the "addition" of Lawrence when he gets back. Can't rely on Gregory, and pretending Irving and Crawford are studs in waiting is a joke.
An inconsistent Claiborne and a clearly on the downhill slide Carr is somehow an improvement over last year or even 2014 is laughable in itself.

Jones is an upgrade, but he's not Superman and worse yet he is still paired with a shitty player in Church which still leaves us vulnerable in the back half of the field.

Thornton helps the interior D, but he's not got much help around him.

I just see this D giving up a ton of points.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
There is 0 pass rush, and I'm including the "addition" of Lawrence when he gets back. Can't rely on Gregory, and pretending Irving and Crawford are studs in waiting is a joke.
An inconsistent Claiborne and a clearly on the downhill slide Carr is somehow an improvement over last year or even 2014 is laughable in itself.

Jones is an upgrade, but he's not Superman and worse yet he is still paired with a shitty player in Church which still leaves us vulnerable in the back half of the field.

Thornton helps the interior D, but he's not got much help around him.

I just see this D giving up a ton of points.
What does any of that have to do with what I said?

Compare this defense to the one we had in 2014 or 2013 for that matter which was actually all time bad.
 

UncleMilti

This seemed like a good idea at the time.
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
17,981
It's not the name, in any measure Thornton is an upgrade over Hayden and adding a talent like Collins to the rotation is also a plus.

Having Scandrick back and Jones FT at safety upgrades the secondary and that's without the better play by Claiborne and the rookie Brown.

I am not saying there is anything great about this defense just do not see where this all time worse stuff is coming from.
What does any of that have to do with what I said?

Compare this defense to the one we had in 2014 or 2013 for that matter which was actually all time bad.
I just gave you the reasons it will be worse.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,453
There is 0 pass rush, and I'm including the "addition" of Lawrence when he gets back. Can't rely on Gregory, and pretending Irving and Crawford are studs in waiting is a joke.
An inconsistent Claiborne and a clearly on the downhill slide Carr is somehow an improvement over last year or even 2014 is laughable in itself.
.
I guess and one could say the complete opposite. Claiborne is supposedly having the best camp he has ever had. Scandrick is an excellent corner. We have a bunch of young talented D-lineman in Crawford, Tapper, Lawrence, Gregory and Collins. (I like how people assume that Lawrence has somehow peaked in his second year in the league with 8 sacks. I'd say it is just as likely that the guy is even better this year.) 4 games is only a fraction of the season. No reason to act like our defense is based on only 4 games.

It's basically the glass half full or half empty argument. You can look at everything as worst case scenario and expect all time worst defense. Someone else could look at the same players and see best case scenario. We will fall somewhere in between though with a defense that likely falls in the 10-20 overall range.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
I just gave you the reasons it will be worse.
No you projected everything in a worse case scenario and ignored how any of the new talent could make anyone elses job easier.

You ignored Scandrick coming back and how good Brown has looked which is better than anything we had after Claiborne and Carr all of last year.

And the fact Wilcox is no longer a huge liability.

We have the equivilent of the same type of DE's we had in 2014, I think people forget fucking Ken Boatright was getting reps.:lol
 

UncleMilti

This seemed like a good idea at the time.
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
17,981
I guess and one could say the complete opposite. Claiborne is supposedly having the best camp he has ever had. Scandrick is an excellent corner. We have a bunch of young talented D-lineman in Crawford, Tapper, Lawrence, Gregory and Collins. (I like how people assume that Lawrence has somehow peaked in his second year in the league with 8 sacks. I'd say it is just as likely that the guy is even better this year.) 4 games is only a fraction of the season. No reason to act like our defense is based on only 4 games.

It's basically the glass half full or half empty argument. You can look at everything as worst case scenario and expect all time worst defense. Someone else could look at the same players and see best case scenario. We will fall somewhere in between though with a defense that likely falls in the 10-20 overall range.
Don't we always hear how Claiborne is "having his best camp ever"? :lol

Gregory won't be back for 10 games. How is he even in the discussion? Tapper...the one that now has a broken bone in his back? Lawrence probably had his sack total helped out by the Kraken...can't say for sure, can't deny for sure. And, now the lack of depth is going to rear its ugly head when the rookie QB has to make throws to sustain key drives. And this is already a defensive unit that pukes its guts and gets winded when asked to be on the field for any length of time. EVERY. YEAR.

Yes, I'm negative. I have no reason to feel any differently when the defense has consistently underperformed. Adding a few safety pins to a defense that truly needs a major overhaul doesn't do much to inspire me to think differently.



One things for sure...you can't hide deficiencies in todays NFL. We are going to know very quickly how good/bad this D is.
 
Top Bottom