The Great Police Work Thread

fortsbest

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I chose my words correctly. When we are talking about an officer potentially murdering someone there is no place in the discussion for the victims character as you seem to think.
Again, not what I said. If an officer commits an act that is clearly premeditated and kills someone it is definitely murder. You don't see that happening at all or rarely. If an officer makes a mistake and kills an unarmed person due to negligence or bad decision making it isn't murder, it's manslaughter. No different than someone making a bad decision while driving and running over a pedestrian because they were careless.
If an officer does either of these things the person's character shouldn't matter. In cases like Michael Brown's where he was unarmed but attacked an officer and had just strong armed robbed someone, then you'd better believe it comes in to play. All the lies people spouted about Brown, the gentle giant BS, that he wouldn't do those things and he had his hands up. All lies supported by media and government. You'd better believe character and back ground matters. I rightfully admit I have an agenda. Officers do hard work and do it with good intent and people like you and others here and the people writing those articles don't give a lick about that because it is agenda driven. More white folk are shot by police than black folk and yet the only time you here about a police shooting in the media is when it is a black person and most of the the time then it is someone with a questionable history and back ground that they frickin try to make a martyr. I noticed no one here commented at all about the you girl that got shot the the lady in the video commented on! which exactly proves my point.

I don't really like the term justifiable either. It seems to give officers more freedom to kill someone then a person who doesn't have a badge. The standards should be the same self defense standards that we hold the general population to. You can use equal force to defend yourself or others but nothing greater.
It doesn't mater if you don't like the term. it is there for a reason. And that last sentence is nonsense. If I go to a scene and a guy is yelling at me, I'll talk him down. If I have to take him into custody and he keeps yelling and resists, I'm using a baton, pepper spray or a taser. If he has either of those items I may pull my gun and if he has a knife or a gun, I'll definitely pull my gun. My job isn't to use equal force on someone. What officers are trained to do is use the minimum amount of force necessary to gain control of a situation. That doesn't mean fight someone on equal terms and may the best person win.
So you keep hammering away at how officers shoot too many people, regardless the circumstance. Keep focusing on your opinion that what I said about character, back ground and circumstance of a victim has noting to do with an officer involved shooting and we'll see how many more "innocent" youths get themselves shot. Oh yeah keep ignoring the deserving white folk that get themselves shot to because all that really matters is black lives apparently too. And then keep harping on the big bad officers who are just violent vigilantes out for our freedom to kill as many people as they can because, "hey, it's what they do!"

I notice no one here has ever reported they did as I suggested and rode out with their local officers to get an idea of what police work is really like. Oh no, You lazy hypocrites would just rather sit back a preach and bitch based on crap other people have written that they haven't thoroughly researched or detailed either. Amazing. Truly amazing.
 

Jiggyfly

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I notice no one here has ever reported they did as I suggested and rode out with their local officers to get an idea of what police work is really like. Oh no, You lazy hypocrites would just rather sit back a preach and bitch based on crap other people have written that they haven't thoroughly researched or detailed either. Amazing. Truly amazing.

How the hell will one ride along show you anything about what police work is really like?

First of all the officers are going to be on there best behavior and secondly it's very possible nothing will happen
how exactly is that real police work?

Also as you have stated yourself not all officers respond the same or act the same so once again what exactly about this ride along is going to be so enlightening?

Stop acting like nobody understands what police work really is, frankly that whole paragraph is embarrassingly condescending.
 

Cotton

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How the hell will one ride along show you anything about what police work is really like?

First of all the officers are going to be on there best behavior and secondly it's very possible nothing will happen
how exactly is that real police work?

Also as you have stated yourself not all officers respond the same or act the same so once again what exactly about this ride along is going to be so enlightening?

Stop acting like nobody understands what police work really is, frankly that whole paragraph is embarrassingly condescending.
You have no clue what police work is like.
 

Clay_Allison

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Well, to be fair, cops at least in the England part of the UK don't carry guns. Kinda hard to kill someone if you don't have a gun. Are you suggesting our cops not be allowed to carry a gun?
Well, that's insanely outdated. A lot of UK cops carry guns these days.
 

Clay_Allison

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Again numbers. how do you know those numbers are any more accurate than the ones reported about US police. How do they report instances of police shootings and how are they classified so they are reported. Plus, you don't have the same set of living circumstances in those countries you have here with people that behave the same. Find me the city in Europe that deals with Bloods, Crips, MS13 and groups like taht on a daily basis that are as busy killing each other and innocents as the big cities here. IT's apples and oranges dude. We have folks that policed in Germany and Poland and other countries on our force and they are completely shocked at the circumstances they have to deal with in comparison. Not even close to the same.
Oh yeah, their numbers are that much worse than US numbers, over 500 times worse. We'll just accept that as the margin of error because you want to, because you are desperate to come up with reasons to kill more people.

I know my job, as a CO has gotten incredibly safer in the last 20 years from the numbers and the people I work with who are nearing retirement age. You want to pretend that we're living in a society 10 times worse than 1993 Compton CA and It's just a lie.

I notice no one here has ever reported they did as I suggested and rode out with their local officers to get an idea of what police work is really like. Oh no, You lazy hypocrites would just rather sit back a preach and bitch based on crap other people have written that they haven't thoroughly researched or detailed either. Amazing. Truly amazing.
Yeah, bro. 5 years and counting in the prison system. I've dealt with convicted murderers, rapists, armed robbers, guys who had 30+ years stacked on them, but I don't know what the hell it's like dealing with criminals. From your perspective maybe you did the hard work. From my perpective you're ticketing old ladies for speeding and I tell murderers when to eat sleep and shit with no gun to back up my authority.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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Again, not what I said. If an officer commits an act that is clearly premeditated and kills someone it is definitely murder. You don't see that happening at all or rarely. If an officer makes a mistake and kills an unarmed person due to negligence or bad decision making it isn't murder, it's manslaughter.
Maybe that is what the law is in your state, but it's not even close to accurate for the the majority of states in the United States. Murder in no way requires premeditation. I don't want to give you too hard of a time because maybe the laws in Texas (I believe that's where you live) are just that dramatically different then the rest of the United States. If an officer here in Missouri gave that explanation on the stand he would be torn apart by any criminal defense attorney for not knowing the law.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I notice no one here has ever reported they did as I suggested and rode out with their local officers to get an idea of what police work is really like. Oh no, You lazy hypocrites would just rather sit back a preach and bitch based on crap other people have written that they haven't thoroughly researched or detailed either. Amazing. Truly amazing.
Honestly, I think I've had enough close contact with officers to not need a ride along. Besides, I have copies of many arrest videos from my clients that I have watched hours of footage from. I'm comfortable saying that I have seen what it looks like from inside of a cop car.
 

Carp

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I watched quite a bit of Simon and Simon growing up, so I don't really need go for a ride along.
 

townsend

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I think it's unfair to compare the UK or French law enforcement to the US. We have way more violent criminals. Our intentional homicide rate is 4.7 compared to their 1.0

Violence-wise we're closer to Georgia, Yemen, and Thailand.

Not that 1000 police-caused deaths are an excuse under any circumstance.
 

peplaw06

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Maybe that is what the law is in your state, but it's not even close to accurate for the the majority of states in the United States. Murder in no way requires premeditation. I don't want to give you too hard of a time because maybe the laws in Texas (I believe that's where you live) are just that dramatically different then the rest of the United States. If an officer here in Missouri gave that explanation on the stand he would be torn apart by any criminal defense attorney for not knowing the law.
You're right... Texas doesn't require premeditation. It's an intent element, which is often conflated with premeditation.
 

L.T. Fan

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You're right... Texas doesn't require premeditation. It's an intent element, which is often conflated with premeditation.
Not to debate the legal application but premeditation and intent seem to be close to to the same thing as a practical matter.
 

peplaw06

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Not to debate the legal application but premeditation and intent seem to be close to to the same thing as a practical matter.
It's easy for the lay person to get mixed up. Premeditation can be proof of intent, but you can have intent without premeditation. You can have intent to kill a person in a self-defense situation, but if it's true self-defense, there is no premeditation. You can have intent to kill your wife's lover if you catch them in bed together, but if you didn't plan on coming home and shooting them in bed... a true heat of the moment killing... then there's no premeditation.
 

L.T. Fan

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It's easy for the lay person to get mixed up. Premeditation can be proof of intent, but you can have intent without premeditation. You can have intent to kill a person in a self-defense situation, but if it's true self-defense, there is no premeditation. You can have intent to kill your wife's lover if you catch them in bed together, but if you didn't plan on coming home and shooting them in bed... a true heat of the moment killing... then there's no premeditation.
Thank you. Can I assume you didn't plan to submit a bill for your explanation even though you intend to do so now. :art
 

fortsbest

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How the hell will one ride along show you anything about what police work is really like?

First of all the officers are going to be on there best behavior and secondly it's very possible nothing will happen
how exactly is that real police work?

Also as you have stated yourself not all officers respond the same or act the same so once again what exactly about this ride along is going to be so enlightening?

Stop acting like nobody understands what police work really is, frankly that whole paragraph is embarrassingly condescending.
First of all almost every time you write something here it's incredibly condescending. Secondly, you assume that there is a need for them to behave anyway than they normally do because of your cynical attitude. I find i to believe that you worked in the CJ system alongside cops on a regular basis and have such a poor opinion of them. Thirdly, you can gain a little perspective and insight from a ride along even if things aren't super exciting but again, you wouldn't know if you didn't try. And frankly just because you think you do doesn't mean everyone else thinks they are all-knowing about other people's jobs. Get off your damn high horse pretending you know exactly what police work entails. You particularly are the primary person posting all this stuff here exactly as I was talking about.
 

fortsbest

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Oh yeah, their numbers are that much worse than US numbers, over 500 times worse. We'll just accept that as the margin of error because you want to, because you are desperate to come up with reasons to kill more people.

I know my job, as a CO has gotten incredibly safer in the last 20 years from the numbers and the people I work with who are nearing retirement age. You want to pretend that we're living in a society 10 times worse than 1993 Compton CA and It's just a lie.
I don't think I ever said that my job isn't safer sir Clay, I know it is. And our society is generally safer as well, but in the areas where these things are happening it isn't necessarily so. Texas is really a whole other animal in that regard. The types of criminals citizens and police are dealing with are different than those causing problems 20 years ago.

Yeah, bro. 5 years and counting in the prison system. I've dealt with convicted murderers, rapists, armed robbers, guys who had 30+ years stacked on them, but I don't know what the hell it's like dealing with criminals. From your perspective maybe you did the hard work. From my perpective you're ticketing old ladies for speeding and I tell murderers when to eat sleep and shit with no gun to back up my authority.
I never said that applied to you either. I've told you tome and again I wouldn't want your job for any salary, but your controlled environment is a little different than dealing with folk out in the wild as well. You have a skewed perspective regarding what police do in the field because of whatever bitterness a resentment you have that has been discussed before, but remember that they had to be dealt with out here before they got to you so get over yourself.
 

fortsbest

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Maybe that is what the law is in your state, but it's not even close to accurate for the the majority of states in the United States. Murder in no way requires premeditation. I don't want to give you too hard of a time because maybe the laws in Texas (I believe that's where you live) are just that dramatically different then the rest of the United States. If an officer here in Missouri gave that explanation on the stand he would be torn apart by any criminal defense attorney for not knowing the law.
In Texas, murder, capital murder, manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide all fall under the category of homicide. Culpability is the main determinate of what level of crime it is. Murder is intentionally and knowingly causing the death of someone. Capital murder is the same culpability, but in the commission of another felony, public servant, child or elderly as the victim, for money etc. Manslaughter is recklessly causing death and CNH should be obvious. These are brief summations not complete and total descriptions. I wasn't trying to be technical before so take it how you want.
 
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