2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Plan9Misfit

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I'm probably not a good one to tackle this because I fall under the religious conservative category. I do realize you can't really legislate morality, but at the same time I don't think we need to legislate immorality either.

Out of the three things you mentioned I'm in favor of two of them. I don't know the stats on whether marijuana users tend to move on to other drugs or not. So for the sake of argument let's assume it's not a gateway drug. As for abortion I'm opposed to it but realize it's the legal and no one is going to change that. Even the talk from staunch conservative politicians tends to be more about fund-raising and attracting social conservative votes than actually doing anything. But even though it's legal and will likely stay that way I don't think organizations that provide abortion 'services' need to be funded by the government, i.e taxpayers like you and me.

I also believe marriage is intended to be between a man and woman. No need for gov't to get involved and overturn centuries worth of tradition and change the meaning. If people are homosexual, so be it. If they want to live together so be it. But I don't think they need to have any legal status as married couples or for the definition of marriage to be changed. I also think if anything it should be a state issue not a federal issue. But I'd just be as fine if gov't wasn't involved in marriage on any level, homosexual or heterosexual.
And reasonable people don't feel that marriage should be "defined" nor legislated at all because that's forcing one person's view of "morality" onto another, thus creating a caste system and stymying true liberty. An American citizen should receive the same rights and liberties as another. There should never be different social rules for one person or another. Religion dictates that, but humanism refutes it. That's where the religious nuts have it wrong. Your ways may be "right" for you, but that doesn't mean that you should have the right to force them onto others.
 

VA Cowboy

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And reasonable people don't feel that marriage should be "defined" nor legislated at all because that's forcing one person's view of "morality" onto another, thus creating a caste system and stymying true liberty. An American citizen should receive the same rights and liberties as another. There should never be different social rules for one person or another. Religion dictates that, but humanism refutes it. That's where the religious nuts have it wrong. Your ways may be "right" for you, but that doesn't mean that you should have the right to force them onto others.
As you can see above, I said I'm fine with gov't not being involved at all. I do find it interesting that forcing one's views upon others though is ok for liberals but not conservatives.
 

townsend

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As you can see above, I said I'm fine with gov't not being involved at all. I do find it interesting that forcing one's views upon others though is ok for liberals but not conservatives.
I think anyone who's of a libertarian mindset has done their own little jerkoff motion every time liberals start manipulating a tragedy towards gun control. That's just as much forcing someone's beliefs on another as anything.

The litmus test has always been that the freedom to swing my hand, ends at the other mans nose. Don't like eating meat? Cool, but you can't outlaw it. Don't like gay marriage? Cool, but you can't outlaw it. Don't like owning guns? Cool, but you can't outlaw them.
 

townsend

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I know what you're saying but I don't think conservatives need to give up their principles and values and move to the left. But I do think it's wise to concentrate on economic, immigration and defense issues. And like they say, most are more liberal when they're young and tend to become more conservative as they get older.

Winning the youth vote is always going to problematic. And I don't think moving to the left is going to do it because in the past R's have put up more centrist candidates mainly because that is where the establishment GOP is at and strategically trying to win over independents and moderate Dems. But that has failed because it alienated much of the R's base and conservative voters and Dems/Ind's went with the Dem candidate over the Dem-lite candidate.
What's odd is that, to me, Barry Goldwater will always be the prototypical conservative candidate. But he didn't believe in government enforced social conservatism. He was for gay rights, back when being gay was a felony. He said that the infiltration of the church would be the ruin of the Republican Party. It's only fairly recently that social and fiscal conservatism have formed such a tenuous marriage.
 

Clay_Allison

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What's odd is that, to me, Barry Goldwater will always be the prototypical conservative candidate. But he didn't believe in government enforced social conservatism. He was for gay rights, back when being gay was a felony. He said that the infiltration of the church would be the ruin of the Republican Party. It's only fairly recently that social and fiscal conservatism have formed such a tenuous marriage.
It's hard to marry social and fiscal conservatism because enforcing socially conservative laws costs trillions.
 

Plan9Misfit

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As you can see above, I said I'm fine with gov't not being involved at all. I do find it interesting that forcing one's views upon others though is ok for liberals but not conservatives.
It's not ok for either. If you don't agree with something, then don't do it yourself; but stop trying to ban it because you're told not to agree with it.
 

VA Cowboy

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What's odd is that, to me, Barry Goldwater will always be the prototypical conservative candidate. But he didn't believe in government enforced social conservatism. He was for gay rights, back when being gay was a felony. He said that the infiltration of the church would be the ruin of the Republican Party. It's only fairly recently that social and fiscal conservatism have formed such a tenuous marriage.
He was your typical country club Republican. The type that are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. And now the core of the GOP isn't even fiscally conservative for the most part.
 

VA Cowboy

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Well I guess you won't be voting for Hillary. She loves war. Voted for Iraq war and only later claimed it was a mistake when it became politically unpopular. But even as Sec of State she supported the ouster of Gaddafi, was involved in funneling arms to the 'moderate' groups opposing Assad to try and ouster him and those group turned out to be Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS.

The people who hate Bush for this reason seem to love Hillary. The hypocrisy is astonishing.
 

BipolarFuk

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Well I guess you won't be voting for Hillary. She loves war. Voted for Iraq war and only later claimed it was a mistake when it became politically unpopular. But even as Sec of State she supported the ouster of Gaddafi, was involved in funneling arms to the 'moderate' groups opposing Assad to try and ouster him and those group turned out to be Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS.

The people who hate Bush for this reason seem to love Hillary. The hypocrisy is astonishing.
Voting for teh Bern.
 

Plan9Misfit

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Well I guess you won't be voting for Hillary. She loves war. Voted for Iraq war and only later claimed it was a mistake when it became politically unpopular. But even as Sec of State she supported the ouster of Gaddafi, was involved in funneling arms to the 'moderate' groups opposing Assad to try and ouster him and those group turned out to be Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS.

The people who hate Bush for this reason seem to love Hillary. The hypocrisy is astonishing.
Yep. The double standard makes me want to puke. And what's worse is her arrogant dismissal of her shithead, war mongering record. She acts like it's no big deal that she helped perpetuate a 12 year long war with multiple countries on multiple fronts, and cavalierly rejects any accountability for her disgraceful and immoral behavior. Her actions are just as bad as Bush's were, and you know all too well how much I hated him as President.
 

Plan9Misfit

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We all know Hillary will be the Dem nominee.
Yep. She brings in more money than Bernie Sanders, and is a big government, war mongering statist; just what the Democrats want.

And what's worse is that Trump's money and resources may force the GOP's hand to push him away and force him to run as an independent, which screws them because he'll split whatever's left of the limited Republican voter turnout.
 

townsend

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Yep. She brings in more money than Bernie Sanders, and is a big government, war mongering statist; just what the Democrats want.

And what's worse is that Trump's money and resources may force the GOP's hand to push him away and force him to run as an independent, which screws them because he'll split whatever's left of the limited Republican voter turnout.
Democrats vote with their heart a bit more than republicans. I think the modern iteration of the party has a more universal ideology. Compared to the hodgepodge of republicans. I give Sanders about a 15% chance to upset. I think his grassroots populist platform might mobilize all the liberals that already rejected Hillary in 08.
 

VA Cowboy

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Yep. She brings in more money than Bernie Sanders, and is a big government, war mongering statist; just what the Democrats want.

And what's worse is that Trump's money and resources may force the GOP's hand to push him away and force him to run as an independent, which screws them because he'll split whatever's left of the limited Republican voter turnout.
At this point I doubt he'll do that. He's already passed deadlines in certain states like Texas and Ohio where he can't run as an Independent since he's still a candidate of another party.
 

VA Cowboy

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Democrats vote with their heart a bit more than republicans. I think the modern iteration of the party has a more universal ideology. Compared to the hodgepodge of republicans. I give Sanders about a 15% chance to upset. I think his grassroots populist platform might mobilize all the liberals that already rejected Hillary in 08.
They definitely don't vote with their brain.
 

Clay_Allison

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Republicans elected W.

Whatever organ they used for that is not only inferior, but should probably be removed before it metastasizes.
There wasn't anything obviously wrong with Bush when he was elected in 2000. He was a popular governor and had a pretty broad appeal. I think people forget how much he deteriorated from Year One to Year Eight. Note how he's crawled into a hole and pulled the hole in after him since he left office? The job broke him.
 

townsend

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There wasn't anything obviously wrong with Bush when he was elected in 2000. He was a popular governor and had a pretty broad appeal. I think people forget how much he deteriorated from Year One to Year Eight. Note how he's crawled into a hole and pulled the hole in after him since he left office? The job broke him.
He was apparently very gracious leaving the Whitehouse, breaking with tradition of being a total dick to the next guy. I think he took his catastrophic presidency very personally. Unlike Jimmy Highlander Carter who's just super proud of himself.

I think Barack's last years in office should set him apart. Unlike W and Clinton and Almighty Reagan, Obama seems like the first two term president to be gaining momentum as his time in office is nearly up.
 
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