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Thread: Abortion... yeah or nah?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cowboysrock55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik View Post
    But yeah, go ahead and let them do it. I don't want to pay for it, though. That's some bullshit.
    There absolutely should not be federal or state funds going to it. Plain and simple.

    But yeah, I'm not going to tell someone that they can't take something out of their body that is in it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member townsend's Avatar
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    I feel like the abortion issue has been so screwed up with extreme rhetoric from either side that it's become difficult to have an non hyperbolic conversation about it.

    To me the most important distinction is that a sperm isn't, a zygote, which isn't an embryo, which isn't a fetus, which isn't a new born. Each have relative levels of humanity compared to the other. (The new born distinction being important because at that point the child's life is not dependent upon the mother's.) If someone miscarries in their first trimester it's not as tragic as if they lost their child after birth. No one (sane) really believes that an abortion clinic is the same as a baby execution facility.

    Being potentially human is not the same as being a human, especially not when it's the size of a damned poppy seed. Outrage against anything in the first trimester is nearly as ridiculous as being outraged that someone washed their sock after jizzing into it.

    On the same note saying that something is not a baby just because it hasn't passed through the arch, so to speak, is also ridiculous. But I've yet to hear someone defend late term abortion by saying that those don't count as babies. Mostly what I hear about late terms is that it's almost always due to medical necessity, and since doctors are better at determining what is medically necessary than politicians, these kinds of things should be left to professionals.

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  4. #23
    I don't have any objection to abortion as a thing. For me it comes down to if abortion is a acceptable form of birth control. I knew a chick who'd had 15 abortions. For her, this was birth control. Apparently she didn't believe in "conception control."

    That's the rub - all forms of birth control should be re-branded "conception control" and leave "birth control" as a term applied only to surgical or chemical methods of stopping the process once it has begun.

    As to the question of when life begins? For the "abortion on demand" people, it's defined as when the newborn breathes our air. For the "life begins at conception" crowd, it's the moment the human egg is fertilized. Is there a place somewhere in between these, where people can agree?

    I lean towards abortion never being banned or criminalized again. But I also don't think it should ever be considered a acceptable form of birth control - first of all it's not the safest procedure in the world for the mother either. It should be much more rare than it currently is. How we get there is another question entirely.

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  6. #24
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angrymesscan View Post
    I'm anti-abortion, but don't think I should take the right of a woman to decide over her body. Is the embrio not part of her body?
    Nope.

  7. #25
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    Obviously as most people don't accept that life begins at conception, that is not a stage where abortion will ever be illegal.

    The key will be deciding where that line is, though, because once it is human life, pretty much any pro abortion argument is ridiculous. In a balancing of rights, right to life always trumps right to privacy.

  8. #26
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by townsend View Post
    I feel like the abortion issue has been so screwed up with extreme rhetoric from either side that it's become difficult to have an non hyperbolic conversation about it.

    To me the most important distinction is that a sperm isn't, a zygote, which isn't an embryo, which isn't a fetus, which isn't a new born. Each have relative levels of humanity compared to the other. (The new born distinction being important because at that point the child's life is not dependent upon the mother's.) If someone miscarries in their first trimester it's not as tragic as if they lost their child after birth. No one (sane) really believes that an abortion clinic is the same as a baby execution facility.

    Being potentially human is not the same as being a human, especially not when it's the size of a damned poppy seed. Outrage against anything in the first trimester is nearly as ridiculous as being outraged that someone washed their sock after jizzing into it.

    On the same note saying that something is not a baby just because it hasn't passed through the arch, so to speak, is also ridiculous. But I've yet to hear someone defend late term abortion by saying that those don't count as babies. Mostly what I hear about late terms is that it's almost always due to medical necessity, and since doctors are better at determining what is medically necessary than politicians, these kinds of things should be left to professionals.
    You left out 2nd trimester babies. How do you feel about babies that are smelling their embryonic fluid? Do they get a choice, or is it the mother's decision?
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  9. #27
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Oh, and let me be clear, in my mind if you abort after the baby's cognitive ability is formed, it's murder.

    And, I won't shoot up a clinic. But, I damn sure would like to in certain circumstances.
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  10. #28
    Senior Member townsend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamtdg View Post
    You left out 2nd trimester babies. How do you feel about babies that are smelling their embryonic fluid? Do they get a choice, or is it the mother's decision?
    2nd trimester abortions only account for about 6%. Personally I think at that point there needs to be a medical necessity, but wouldn't trust politicians to draft legislation on it. Medical doctors and prospective parents are more likely to come to the best decision, as compared to a bunch of old politicians who probably couldn't tell you the first thing about female reproductive anatomy.

  11. #29
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    I don't think it's true that abortion doctors are doing anything but promoting abortions in many cases.

  12. #30
    Senior Member Newt's Avatar
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    I have a hard time with this topic, my self, I wouldn't want any part of an abortion. But at the same time I can see instances where it would be "the better option."

    I do believe that if you have an abortion, for reasons other than rape or health concerns, that you should have your tubes tied or something to prevent you from getting pregnant again.

    For example, my sister in law is a whore, she got pregnant at 17 and got an abortion, 2 years later she was pregnant again, she chose to have this baby, and again 2 years later, and guess what, she's pregnant again now. She is 24 years old, still lives with her parents, has no job, and gets WIC, Food Stamps, Health Care and all the other good shit that most of us have to pay for. She is a drain on everyone around her, yet she keep pumping out babies.

    I realize how big of an asshole I sound when I say that though. And I understand that just because you have an abortion at 17 doesn't mean you're going to turn into a piece of shit. But I also don't think abortion is a good form of "birth control", and if you have used abortion as birth control maybe it should become permanent.
    For some reason I can't say that phrase out loud, its one of the reasons I will never be the actor Robert Downey Jr is. I always say Tastey Peabag instead of Pastey Teabag, and thats a really big difference on just a two letter swing.

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