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Thread: Abortion... yeah or nah?

  1. #1
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Abortion... yeah or nah?

    We don't have an abortion thread, so might as well use this article to start one...

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    (CNN)Angered by a new law requiring women receive medical counseling at least 24 hours before an abortion, a Kentucky lawmaker decided she was going to "strike a nerve" with her political opponents -- in particular, the men.

    State Rep. Mary Lou Marzian, a Louisville Democrat, has introduced a bill that would require any man seeking a prescription for drugs to treat erectile dysfunction -- such as Viagra, Cialis and Levitra -- to "have two office visits on two different calendar days" before receiving the desired medication.

    Marzian's House Bill 396 would only allow married men access to the treatments and call on them to "produce a signed and dated letter" demonstrating the consent of their current spouse. They would also have to give a sworn statement -- "hand on a Bible" -- that the prescription would only be used for sex with their legal partners.

    "As a woman and a pro-choice woman and as an elected official, I am sick and tired of men -- mostly white men -- legislating personal, private medical decisions," Marzian, a retired nurse and 22-year statehouse veteran, told CNN. "It's none of their business."

    Earlier this month, Republican Gov. Matt Bevin signed into law a bill beefing up the state's "informed consent" requirement for women seeking an abortion. Previously, patients could listen to a phone recording that listed the potential health risks associated with the procedure. Now, women will have to speak to a medical professional in person or via video teleconference.

    Passage of the new restriction set off a social media campaign against Bevin and anti-abortion lawmakers, and while Marzian concedes her bill will have little practical effect on the new law, she said the measure was written to hit opponents where it hurts.

    "When I put this out here, I thought, you know, I will strike a nerve because what is more sacred to men than their ability to have sexual intercourse?" she said with a laugh. "Let's regulate that."

    "I think it illustrates how intrusive it is," Marzian continued, "how wrong it is, for any type of government, whether it's state legislature, whether it's Donald Trump, inserting themselves into personal, private medical decisions."
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  2. #2
    Senior Member mschmidt64's Avatar
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    Abortion activists like this one are either stupid or deliberately miss the point in order to disingenuously put themselves into the rhetorical driver's seat.

    No conservative I know is interested in getting between a woman and her doctor on 99.999% of any issues that arise. If it was really just about fucking with women's right to privacy, why wouldn't this contempt for women's rights bleed over into other areas of the Doctor-patient relationship?

    The truth is that conservatives have no interest in telling a woman what to do with their bodies; they believe in telling women what they can't do to OTHER people's bodies.

    Here's biology 101, liberals. When a woman gets pregnant, another entity with unique DNA distinguishable from the mother's is now growing inside you. Drop the farce about it being a lump of cells or simply "part of your body." You are making us all dumber every time you repeat that completely false nonsense. It's not yours. It's no more yours than the mans who put it there. Have a problem with the fact that women are the ones who get stuck carrying this burden? Yes, it's a burden, but take it up with nature. Until we find a better way, sex is still how independent humans are created, and they start as individual people inside women. These are basic facts... acknowledging them is not depriving you of rights, it's explaining how the world works and yes, as a woman you have some extra burdens placed on you by nature.

    So equating it to a man getting Viagra is retarded. When conservatives start regulating the sale of condoms or birth control pills then you have an argument maybe.

    Until then, have a little intellectual honesty and just fess up to the issue, which is: at what point should a fetus be granted basic human protections? At what point is that baby inside the womb (because that's what it is, dickbags, a fucking human baby) entitled to be protected from having its life ended?

    If you're not the sort who goes in for religion, I probably can't convince you that life begins at conception. But you also can't make a rational argument for why a fetus that can react to stimuli, has working senses, functional nervous system, brain, organs, CAN FEEL PAIN.... Can be killed just because the mother says so. I sit here every night in bed and watch my child inside my wife react to my voice and interact with us on a daily basis, and it has been happening for months now.

    So let's have the talk about where that line is, because unlimited abortion is ethically disgusting and if you advocate it, you are going to whatever hell exists after this life.
    Last edited by mschmidt64; 02-16-2016 at 12:39 AM.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Clay_Allison's Avatar
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    At some point along the way the difference between abortion and infanticide is arbitrary.
    #firegarrett

  5. #4
    Administrator boozeman's Avatar
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    Whotta cumb dunt.

  6. #5
    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay_Allison View Post
    At some point along the way the difference between abortion and infanticide is arbitrary.
    I have heard a comparison to this question phrased this way. If death occurs when the heart stops beating then isn't it reasonable that it begins when the heart begins to beat. Seems like a pretty reasonable stance.

    Having said that, I confess that I have very mixed positions on the abortion issues in general.
    Since Day One

  7. #6
    Senior Member Genghis Khan's Avatar
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    I'm anti-abortion but pro choice.

    I remember watching the camera of my kid in the womb really early, I want to say it was like 8 weeks, and thinking Jesus he seems alive already.

    I'd never say never, but I'd like to think I'd never willing terminate a baby.

    But I do believe in pro-choice within limitations.
    Last edited by Genghis Khan; 02-16-2016 at 11:48 AM.

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  9. #7
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    I have to say I have gotten even more conservative on this issue over the years. Really the only way I could back an abortion if it was going to endanger the mother to attempt to have the child.
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    Senior Tech dallen's Avatar
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    For you? Sure
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  11. #9
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallen View Post
    For you? Sure
    Pretty sure I don't like your tone, pal.
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  12. #10
    Senior Tech dallen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genghis Khan View Post
    I'm anti-abortion but pro choice.

    I remember watching the camera of my kid in the womb really early, I want to say it was like 8 weeks, and thinking Jesus he seems alive already.

    I'd never say never, but I'd like to think I'd never willing terminate a baby.

    But I do believe in pro-choice within limitations.
    I couldn't see myself doing it after having children of my own, but my daughter is going to be a teenager. I'd also hate to see her life ruined by one night's bad decision, or if the unthinkable happened and she were raped I couldn't see forcing her to carry that man's baby for 9 months. But at the same time the child didn't ask to be created. It is one of those issues where I find it very easy to see both sides of the argument. I don't really think there is a right choice.
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