9 dead in ‘hate crime’ shooting at historic African American church in Charleston

peplaw06

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Holy propaganda.

Of course, you could just look at the Southern states' declarations when they seceded:

South Carolina said:
[A]n increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution... Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free.
Mississippi said:
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world.
Georgia said:
"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery...."

"The prohibition of slavery in the Territories is the cardinal principle of [the Republicans]," and that "by their declared principles and policy they have outlawed $3,000,000,000 of our property in the common territories of the Union."
Texas said:
"We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial and tolerable."
Alabama said:
[Lincoln's election was] nothing less than an open declaration of war, for the triumph of this new theory of government destroys the property of the South, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a Santo Domingo servile resurrection....

Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of President and Vice-President of the United States of America by a sectional party avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the State of Alabama, preceded by many and dangerous infractions of the Constitution of the United States by many of the States and people of the Northern section, is a political wrong of so insulting and menacing a character as to justify the people of the State of Alabama in the adoption of prompt and decided measures for their future peace and security.
And Confederate President Jefferson Davis...

"Our new government is founded on the opposite idea of the equality of the races . . . Its corner stone rests upon the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man. This . . . government is the first in the history of the world, based on this great physical and moral truth."
 

Jiggyfly

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Try this link. It's interesting.
http://www.rulen.com/myths/
Not really, the rebuttals are fairly juvenile.

Like this gem that starts it out.:lol


MYTH - The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT - Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.
There is a argument to be made about the level of motivations for the civil war, none that I believe meet the threshold to change history but this site does nothing to really further the cause.
 

shane

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Those secession declarations have nothing on one of the most vociferous white supremacists ever to hold the office of Presidency, Abe Lincoln:

"I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position." - Honest Abe
 

Cotton

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Uh yeah I was giving him his props.:unsure
Everyone is so used to you arguing that it's not clear when you actually agree with someone.
 

dallen

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Holy propaganda.

Of course, you could just look at the Southern states' declarations when they seceded:











And Confederate President Jefferson Davis...
Yeah, but it had nothing to do with slavery. Or something
 

Jiggyfly

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Everyone is so used to you arguing that it's not clear when you actually agree with someone.
Yeah I have the market cornered on arguing.

I hardly go 5 post deep in a thread anymore, L.T. and Crock have taken that mantle.

I admit to feeling a little feisty yesterday. :lol
 

1bigfan13

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Yeah, but it had nothing to do with slavery. Or something
I always chuckle when I read/hear people say that.

It wasn't ALL about slavery but slavery was definitely one of the points of contention.
 

Clay_Allison

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Not really, the rebuttals are fairly juvenile.

Like this gem that starts it out.:lol




There is a argument to be made about the level of motivations for the civil war, none that I believe meet the threshold to change history but this site does nothing to really further the cause.
The slavery issue was about money too. Like the declaration of one of the states said, they were worried about 3 billion dollars (in 1860 money) being threatened. Of course saying that a war was fought over the financial concerns of the social elite is like saying water is wet.
 

Jiggyfly

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The slavery issue was about money too. Like the declaration of one of the states said, they were worried about 3 billion dollars (in 1860 money) being threatened. Of course saying that a war was fought over the financial concerns of the social elite is like saying water is wet.
This is true but it comes back to slave labor which was the source of the money.

The north was not motivated by altruism it was the fact they envied the cheaper labor advantage the south had.
 

L.T. Fan

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This is true but it comes back to slave labor which was the source of the money.

The north was not motivated by altruism it was the fact they envied the cheaper labor advantage the south had.
Regional labor costs are still a bone of contention across the country. The labor cost in.Texas has kept the construction and housing development going as example when other areas are struggling. Economics are generally at the heart of most major divisions nationally or globally.
 

Jiggyfly

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Regional labor costs are still a bone of contention across the country. The labor cost in.Texas has kept the construction and housing development going as example when other areas are struggling. Economics are generally at the heart of most major divisions nationally or globally.
And none of that has to do with slave labor which was at the root on the conflict between north and south.
 

L.T. Fan

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And none of that has to do with slave labor which was at the root on the conflict between north and south.
So what? Are you the thread monitor? It's a follow up to Clay's comment in an updated set of circumstances about labor.
 

Jiggyfly

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This article explores this revisionist civil war mythology.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/


South Carolina was the first state to secede, two months after the election of Abraham Lincoln. It was in South Carolina that the Civil War began, when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter. The state’s casus belli was neither vague nor hard to comprehend:

...A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.
Even after the war, as the Lost Cause rose, many veterans remained clear about why they had rallied to the Confederate flag. “I’ve never heard of any other cause than slavery,” wrote Confederate commander John S. Mosby. The progeny of the Confederacy repeatedly invoked slavery as the war’s cause.
Local self-government temporarily destroyed may be recovered and ultimately retained. The other thing for which we fought is so complex in its composition, so delicate in its breath, so incomparable in its symmetry, that, being once destroyed, it is forever destroyed. This other thing for which we fought was the supremacy of the white man’s civilization in the country which he proudly claimed his own; “in the land which the Lord his God had given him;” founded upon the white man’s code of ethics, in sympathy with the white man’s tra*ditions and ideals.
 
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