Machota: Top 10 QB ranking - How many will have a better year than Tony Romo in 2015?

ravidubey

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I don't think Smith or Kaepernick are anywhere near as good as Romo and no matter how much talent you have on the rest of the team, SF was well short of good enough at the most important position on the field.
That team had the best OL and front 7 in the league, was elite at TE and RB, and was decent in the secondary and at WR. For a time, they played in the weakest division in football.

Sure they are average at QB, but that was enough for Tampa Bay when Chucky was out of his mind calling plays. Brady was also average in his first Superbowl win.

Smith and Kaepernick were enough to do the job, but Hairball is vastly overrated as a coach. He had the good fortune of inheriting a monster after following the 49ers version of Dave Campo (only not as good).
 

townsend

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I can't say how Harbaugh would have done in Dallas but he apparently has a problem dealing with ownership and management. I think he would have clashed big time in Dallas with the Jones.
I'm left to wonder if he was the problem or SF's front office. The fact that they've absolutely fubared there entire roster and coaching staff supports this. It's a good chance that he couldn't/wouldn't work for Jerry. But Jerry worked with Jimmy and Parcells when it suited him, neither of which were prone to leaving anywhere on good terms.
 

townsend

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That team had the best OL and front 7 in the league, was elite at TE and RB, and was decent in the secondary and at WR. For a time, they played in the weakest division in football.

Sure they are average at QB, but that was enough for Tampa Bay when Chucky was out of his mind calling plays. Brady was also average in his first Superbowl win.

Smith and Kaepernick were enough to do the job, but Hairball is vastly overrated as a coach. He had the good fortune of inheriting a monster after following the 49ers version of Dave Campo (only not as good).
Stupid. Dave Campo's team plays like dog shit, Parcells managed to make it go 10-6 because of amazing coaching. Harbaugh takes a 6-10 team to the conference championship, but he's overrated. There are a lot of stacked teams out there. Very few make it to 3 consecutive NFC championships.

Who knows what we'd be saying about the 2011-2013 Cowboys if they had had Harbaugh. God knows they absolutely didn't play up to their potential.

A year after Chuck one the SB the Bucs disappeared off the face of the earth. Harbaugh's closer to Dungy. Except his teams didn't ever choke the same way Dungy's did.
 
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ravidubey

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Stupid. Dave Campo's team plays like dog shit, Parcells managed to make it go 10-6 because of amazing coaching. Harbaugh takes a 6-10 team to the conference championship, but he's overrated. There are a lot of stacked teams out there. Very few make it to 3 consecutive NFC championships.

Who knows what we'd be saying about the 2011-2013 Cowboys if they had had Harbaugh. God knows they absolutely didn't play up to their potential.

A year after Chuck one the SB the Bucs disappeared off the face of the earth. Harbaugh's closer to Dungy. Except his teams didn't ever choke the same way Dungy's did.
Harbaugh is, has been, and always will be overrated as a pro coach.

He had an embarrassment of riches in San Francisco, terrible competition, and squandered an opportunity to get the 49ers their 6th Lombardi.

Wade Phillips took Parcells' team, went 13-3, and lost to the Giants in a home playoff opener. Hairball did almost the same thing with a younger, deeper team and weaker competition in 2011.

Dallas beat that 2011 team and I wasn't impressed at all with his coaching. He refused to take points off the board in that game after a late FG and would have left Dallas with no time to catch up, and instead he stuck with a 10 point lead and gave Romo, Austin, Bailey (and Jesse freaking Holley) the time needed to win the game.

It was gutless.
 

Clay_Allison

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Harbaugh is, has been, and always will be overrated as a pro coach.

He had an embarrassment of riches in San Francisco, terrible competition, and squandered an opportunity to get the 49ers their 6th Lombardi.

Wade Phillips took Parcells' team, went 13-3, and lost to the Giants in a home playoff opener. Hairball did almost the same thing with a younger, deeper team and weaker competition in 2011.

Dallas beat that 2011 team and I wasn't impressed at all with his coaching. He refused to take points off the board in that game after a late FG and would have left Dallas with no time to catch up, and instead he stuck with a 10 point lead and gave Romo, Austin, Bailey (and Jesse freaking Holley) the time needed to win the game.

It was gutless.
The fact that you can barely stand to use the man's real name speaks to your objectivity on the matter. Did you bet on Indy vs the Steelers in '95 or something?
 

townsend

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Harbaugh is, has been, and always will be overrated as a pro coach.

He had an embarrassment of riches in San Francisco, terrible competition, and squandered an opportunity to get the 49ers their 6th Lombardi.

Wade Phillips took Parcells' team, went 13-3, and lost to the Giants in a home playoff opener. Hairball did almost the same thing with a younger, deeper team and weaker competition in 2011.

Dallas beat that 2011 team and I wasn't impressed at all with his coaching. He refused to take points off the board in that game after a late FG and would have left Dallas with no time to catch up, and instead he stuck with a 10 point lead and gave Romo, Austin, Bailey (and Jesse freaking Holley) the time needed to win the game.

It was gutless.
That's cool. Then he took the team to the NFC championship while the Cowboys went 8-8. Then that exact same scenario played out 2 more times. Because unlike in Dallas the 49ers played up to or exceeded their potential.
Because unlike Dallas the 49ers established a consistent rushing attack. Because unlike Dallas the 49ers didn't depend on their QB to bail them out week in and week out.

Maybe in a specific game, where Dallas got trounced for the first 3.5 quarters he made some judgement errors. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he made far less than anyone else in his division or conference that year. There's no way you can call a coach that has a 44-19 (and 5-3 in the playoffs) record with a team that hadn't won more games than they lost since 2002 overrated. Nit pick all you want. The proof is in the results.
 

ravidubey

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The fact that you can barely stand to use the man's real name speaks to your objectivity on the matter. Did you bet on Indy vs the Steelers in '95 or something?
:lol

It's my impression. Comparisons between Bill Parcells and "Jim" are laughable.

Jim's enormous ego and weird personality will always greatly exceed his actual football knowledge and coaching skills. He's a type-A that talks a bigger game than he can ever produce. His constant, exaggerated sideline coaching of Alex Smith was more of a mindfuck than real help. He had the right idea to keep Smith's pass selection limited, then failed to execute his plan.

With Jim, it will always be about Jim and not the team.

His brother is exactly the opposite kind of person who I can see in Baltimore over the long haul winning multiple championships.

Jim is fortunate to be at Michigan where he can't influence anyone longer than 5 years. His showoff-attitude should be very good at recruiting high school kids to play at Michigan.
 

ravidubey

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That's cool. Then he took the team to the NFC championship while the Cowboys went 8-8. Then that exact same scenario played out 2 more times. Because unlike in Dallas the 49ers played up to or exceeded their potential.
The 49ers actually had potential. Dallas' problem was a fake-GM's dedication to bringing in pretend talent and hiding behind his QB's ability to cover up some of their weaknesses. Marion Barber wasn't half the talent Frank Fore is, but Jerry paid him like it.

The 49ers built their OL with the draft, while Jerry kept paying age and bringing in flawed free agents. People like Leonard Davis and Igor Olshansky would arrive while Stephen Bowen and Chris Canty would leave.

When the 49ers signed a FA, it was a beast like Justin Smith.

The 49ers also played in the worst division in football.

Their problem was complete dysfunction under disorganized coaches like Mike Singletary. ANYONE decent could have come in and won with that team, and Hairball took advantage of that perfect setup.

He also managed to douche it all up before abandoning ship.

Talking him up like some kind of Parcells Jr. is a joke.
 

townsend

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The 49ers actually had potential. Dallas' problem was a fake-GM's dedication to bringing in pretend talent and hiding behind his QB's ability to cover up some of their weaknesses. Marion Barber wasn't half the talent Frank Fore is, but Jerry paid him like it.

The 49ers built their OL with the draft, while Jerry kept paying age and bringing in flawed free agents. People like Leonard Davis and Igor Olshansky would arrive while Stephen Bowen and Chris Canty would leave.

When the 49ers signed a FA, it was a beast like Justin Smith.

The 49ers also played in the worst division in football.

Their problem was complete dysfunction under disorganized coaches like Mike Singletary. ANYONE decent could have come in and won with that team, and Hairball took advantage of that perfect setup.

He also managed to douche it all up before abandoning ship.

Talking him up like some kind of Parcells Jr. is a joke.
It was absolutely not the worst division in football. In 2011 it was the AFC South, in 2012 it was the AFC West, in 2013 it was the AFC south again. I guess you forgot that the Seahawks were also in the NFC west.

How often has ANYONE decent shown up to a dysfunctional broken franchise, fixed the bullshit loser culture, and turned it into a consistent top team? Dick Vermeil, Bill Parcells, Marty Schottenheimer are the only guys I can think of. None of them worked as quickly or had repeated playoff success. (Which should absolutely be the measure of how "overrated" a coach is).

Every team has players that could play well. 2011-2013 Dallas included. In an alternate universe some 49er fan could claim that Harbaugh's Cowboys were stacked with HOFers like Witten, Ware, Romo and Dez, along with guys like Hatcher, Ratliff, Bruce Carter, Demarco Murray, and Mike Jenkins (who all showed flashes of excellence under Garrett but struggled with consistency, likely do to poor coaching.) That ANYONE decent could have had success with.
 

ravidubey

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You have your mind made up, but you must acknowledge that when Harbaugh arrived SF was stacked with talent. You never see that situation, because very few NFL coaches ever drop the soap with so much talent like Singletary had.

Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Joe Staley, Anthony Thomas, Mike Iupati, Ray McDonald, Isaac Sopoaga, Justin Smith, Novarro Bowman, Ahmad Brooks, Pat Willis, Takeo Spikes, Dashon Goldson, Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn, and yes Alex Smith. He even had a world class punter in Lee and the 7th pick in the draft.

That was ridiculous talent.

As for the division, let the numbers speak for themselves. In 2010 the Seahawks won the division with a 7-9 record. They went 7-9 the next year too. 2010-2011 Cards were 5-11 and 8-8. The Rams were 7-9 and 2-14.

In 2012 the Seahawks finally got good enough to go 11-5, but the other teams were still 7-8-1 and 5-11!

You want an example of a great coaching job, look no further than Bruce Arians in 2013 bringing the Cards to 10-6. That was amazing, especially since he had to face the Seawhawks and "great" 49ers twice a year.

Parcells took over a talent-bereft 1-15 team and went 9-7 and to the playoffs with a journeyman QB. He inherited Keyshawn Johnson and Adrian Murrell. He knew enough to dump Neil O'Donnell picked Vinnie Testaverde off the scrapheap and eventually traded for Curtis Martin. He made Wayne Chrebet into a player. That's what great coaches do.

That guy knew how to build a winner-- he inherited nothing.

All Harbaugh did was pull the team's collective head out of it's own ass and scream "look at me!"

The only other cases I can recall where coaches had a sweeter setup were Barry Switzer and George Seifert.
 
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townsend

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Frank Gore, Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker, Joe Staley, Anthony Thomas, Mike Iupati, Ray McDonald, Isaac Sopoaga, Justin Smith, Novarro Bowman, Ahmad Brooks, Pat Willis, Takeo Spikes, Dashon Goldson, Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn, and yes Alex Smith. He even had a world class punter in Lee and the 7th pick in the draft.
Don't pretend this is some kind of murderers row comparable to the Dynasty Cowboys or 9ers. There's no Jerry fucking Rice or Emmitt Smith on that team. There's no Troy Aikman or Steve Young. the 2011-2013 Cowboys had two locks for the HoF in Witten and Ware, a likely 3rd with Dez. I don't think you could say that about Harbaugh's 49ers.

Ahmad Brooks was a decent LBer who had the best year of his career under Harbaugh, looking at most of the defense (with Pat Willis as a possible exception.) there seems to be a big difference in how they performed under Harbaugh, and what they accomplished elsewhere. Imagine that kind of coaching applied to Ware, Ratliff, Spencer, Hatcher, Crawford, Lee, and Carter.

Ted Ginn? Seriously? Ted Ginn isn't even as good as Cole Beasley. Crabtree? Imagine what Harbaugh could have done on a Cowboys team with Dez fucking Bryant, who's like two tiers above Crabtree.

Mike Iupati's cool. Imagine what Harbaugh could have done with Smith, Leary and Frederick.

Frank Gore is a good running back. Demarco Murray broke Emmitt's single game and season franchise yardage records, imagine if someone had committed to running Murray the way the 49ers ran with Gore.

Vernon Davis and Jason Witten are kind of a wash.

Takeo Spikes wasn't a 49er after 2010.

Dashon is a damn good DB. There isn't an equivalent on the Cowboys roster. That being said with as many resources and as many guys have flashed potential then horrifically regressed I think good coaching could have made all the difference. Guys like Jenkins, Newman, Carr, Claiborne, and Scandrick should have been able to make a decent defensive backfield.

Alex Smith. Who the fuck was Alex Smith before Jim Harbaugh showed up? He was a consensus waste of a first overall pick. Harbaugh was the guy who managed to turn him into a QB that minimized turnovers. If Harbaugh had Tony fucking Romo to work with, good god, His stat line would have looked like 2014 every. year.

Harbaugh couldn't just take any team to 3 NFC championships. He'd probably flounder with the Dolphins, Raiders, Browns, or Jaguars the way every head coach would. But even good coaches struggle to be this competitive with great teams. 3 consecutive conference championships meant winning games against some of the very best teams in the most crucial situations.

I mostly agree with Arians, although him getting absolutely murdered by a shit bag Panther team in the playoffs is way different than Harbaugh's playoff success.
 

Clay_Allison

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I mostly agree with Arians, although him getting absolutely murdered by a shit bag Panther team in the playoffs is way different than Harbaugh's playoff success.
Arians was down to his 3rd string QB. Hard to win like that. I don't think we win many games with Dustin Vaughan.
 
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