Archer: Continuity a key for Jason Garrett's coaching staff

mschmidt64 said:

Factually and provably wrong.

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Look it up agenda-boy

jsmith6919 said:

Look it up agenda-boy

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Ok.....

Jeff Fisher missed the playoffs his first four seasons in Tennessee before making the playoffs his fifth. Bill Belichick missed the playoffs his first three seasons in Cleveland before making it his fourth. Marvin Lewis missed the playoffs his first two seasons in Cincy... then was one and done his third year.... then missed the playoffs his next 3 years (so 1 out of 6).

Didn't Landry have 5 losing seasons to start?

townsend said:

Didn't Landry have 5 losing seasons to start?

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Yes and the 6th was just 7-7 and still out of the playoffs.

mschmidt64 said:

Ok.....

Jeff Fisher missed the playoffs his first four seasons in Tennessee before making the playoffs his fifth. Bill Belichick missed the playoffs his first three seasons in Cleveland before making it his fourth. Marvin Lewis missed the playoffs his first two seasons in Cincy... then was one and done his third year.... then missed the playoffs his next 3 years (so 1 out of 6).

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Lewis falls under my definition so he's out and going back all the way to Fisher at Tennessee and Belichick at Cleveland isn't helping your argument

townsend said:

Didn't Landry have 5 losing seasons to start?

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He also started out with a brand new expansion team before free agency....

Personally I'm iffy on Garrett, and wish we could have picked up a Harbaugh, Fox or someone on that level. But the team has a good dynamic and great coordinators. That's all you need to win a super bowl. Brian Billick's dumb ass has a superbowl ring after all.

jsmith6919 said:

Lewis falls under my definition so he's out

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Your definition is arbitrary and thus meaningless. On no planet is making the playoffs 1 out of your first 6 seasons "winning." Yet he established continuity and now has created a half decent team there. So no, winning did not establish continuity for Marvin Lewis. Continuity has led to repeated playoffs now that he's been there long enough.

and going back all the way to Fisher at Tennessee and Belichick at Cleveland isn't helping your argument

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You've got some fucking balls to make up an arbitrary standard completely on your own, then have it completely disproved, refuse to own up to the fact that your statement is false, and then accuse me of being the one with an agenda.

That's the MO for most of you Garrett haters though. Anything less than pure contempt for the guy is "an agenda." Yet you are the ones who refuse to accept anything less than your own point of view on the matter. Quick, post that stupid "pushing" GIF so the other trained seals clap for you.

townsend said:

Personally I'm iffy on Garrett, and wish we could have picked up a Harbaugh, Fox or someone on that level. But the team has a good dynamic and great coordinators. That's all you need to win a super bowl. Brian Billick's dumb ass has a superbowl ring after all.

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Garrett remains an average head coach. He needs talent, and he needs a good staff.

Putting him in a group with about half the other coaches in the league. Outside the ones who make chicken salad out of chickenshit, but also not one of the worst who have no direction. Whether you put him at 12th or 20th is personal preference only and mostly just splitting hairs.

mschmidt64 said:

Your definition is arbitrary and thus meaningless. On no planet is making the playoffs 1 out of your first 6 seasons "winning." Yet he established continuity and now has created a half decent team there. So no, winning did not establish continuity for Marvin Lewis. Continuity has led to repeated playoffs now that he's been there long enough.



You've got some fucking balls to make up an arbitrary standard completely on your own, then have it completely disproved, refuse to own up to the fact that your statement is false, and then accuse me of being the one with an agenda.

That's the MO for most of you Garrett haters though. Anything less than pure contempt for the guy is "an agenda." Yet you are the ones who refuse to accept anything less than your own point of view on the matter. Quick, post that stupid "pushing" GIF so the other trained seals clap for you.

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Lewis MADE THE PLAYOFFS IN HIS FIRST 3 YEARS so there is nothing arbitrary about it and as for Cleveland/Tennessee in what world do they count as one of the "most successful franchises"

mschmidt64 said:

There's a reason why the most successful franchises also happen to be the most stable.

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mschmidt64 said:

That's the MO for most of you Garrett haters though. Anything less than pure contempt for the guy is "an agenda." Yet you are the ones who refuse to accept anything less than your own point of view on the matter. Quick, post that stupid "pushing" GIF so the other trained seals clap for you.

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It's like a movie scene where there's a sophisticated wine & cheese party and then Crazy Charlie kicks open the doors and does his thing.

mschmidt64 said:

Ok.....

Jeff Fisher missed the playoffs his first four seasons in Tennessee before making the playoffs his fifth. Bill Belichick missed the playoffs his first three seasons in Cleveland before making it his fourth. Marvin Lewis missed the playoffs his first two seasons in Cincy... then was one and done his third year.... then missed the playoffs his next 3 years (so 1 out of 6).

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jsmith6919 said:

Lewis MADE THE PLAYOFFS IN HIS FIRST 3 YEARS so there is nothing arbitrary about it

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What is arbitrary is saying that winning breeds continuity and then saying that making the playoffs 1 out of 6 seasons counts as winning just because the "1" happened in the first 3 years. You are the one that picked the three year barrier, yet there is nothing that indicates 3 years is any kind of magic time length that proves anything.

In any case... back to my point.... 1 out of 6 is not a whole lot of winning, and yet Marvin Lewis still managed to stick around and eventually generate a team that has made the playoffs the last 4 seasons. So continuity did help him despite not winning early on.

and as for Cleveland/Tennessee in what world do they count as one of the "most successful franchises"

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I didn't say they were. I said there's a reason why the most successful franchises also tend to be the most stable.

You then made some clearly false statement about "no team that has continuity has a coach that didn't [make the playoffs] in the first 3 years."

Which is factually incorrect. I just named a couple. And you can throw Lewis in there as another name who had success only after establishing continuity, once we disregard your arbitrary "3 year" test.

Marv Levy spent 5 years with the Chiefs and 2 years with Buffalo before his first playoff appearance.

mschmidt64 said:

In this year's case, there was also a positive to the continuity of Garrett's regime. The players bought into what he was preaching, and it generated a bunch of guys who did not roll over in December for once.

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LOL. So four years of "be great today" or whatever other standard Garrett coaching cliche you choose wasn't enough to win in December... But five years, boy, that was the magic number?

Please, we won in December for the same reason we won the other months: We were healthy and Linehan and Marinelli did great jobs. Two brand new coordinators in their first years, BTW.

mschmidt64 said:

What is arbitrary is saying that winning breeds continuity and then saying that making the playoffs 1 out of 6 seasons counts as winning just because the "1" happened in the first 3 years. You are the one that picked the three year barrier, yet there is nothing that indicates 3 years is any kind of magic time length that proves anything.

In any case... back to my point.... 1 out of 6 is not a whole lot of winning, and yet Marvin Lewis still managed to stick around and eventually generate a team that has made the playoffs the last 4 seasons. So continuity did help him despite not winning early on.



I didn't say they were. I said there's a reason why the most successful franchises also tend to be the most stable.

You then made some clearly false statement about "no team that has continuity has a coach that didn't [make the playoffs] in the first 3 years."

Which is factually incorrect. I just named a couple.

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You did not name any team that has continuity, you named some that had it. Fact is Lewis made the playoffs in his first 3 years and therefore showed a reason to keep him around. And I said "Every organization that has continuity has a HC that showed something in the first 3 years." so it is factually correct. I ceded Garrett as the exception with "Except if you are in the family portrait"

Chocolate Lab said:

LOL. So four years of "be great today" or whatever other standard coaching cliche you choose wasn't enough to win in December... But five years, boy, that was the magic number?

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It contributed to it. It wasn't the sole (or even the main) reason.

Please, we won in December for the same reason we won the other months: We were healthy and Linehan and Marinelli did great jobs.

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Those are also reasons.

The main reason is the dominance of the OL all season long though, if we're talking about what should get the most credit.

jsmith6919 said:

You did not name any team that has continuity, you named some that had it. Fact is Lewis made the playoffs in his first 3 years and therefore showed a reason to keep him around. And I said "Every organization that has continuity has a HC that showed something in the first 3 years." so it is factually correct. I ceded Garrett as the exception with "Except if you are in the family portrait"

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Getting technical on verb tenses now to save your argument.

I feel the "First 3 years" metric is better for a second term head coach. Ditka in New Orleans for instance. We should have known when we hired a bad coordinator and bad qb coach that he was a project as a head coach. Ideally we wouldn't have to grow our own, but a Harbaugh would not tolerate a Jerry Jones. Our best bet at success is a big ol' family photo. I'm personally a little disappointed in a 5 year contract, after one good year, but that's what Jerry gets for letting Garrett's lame duck year play out without firing or extending him.

mschmidt64 said:

Getting technical on verb tenses now to save your argument.

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You dredge up some old ass examples like that was a valid point and then try to claim Lewis even though he showed something early but yea I'm pushing an agenda..