Joel Osteen's church theft opens can of worms: Jaws drop as folks do the math

L.T. Fan said:

This church congregation is obviously not desperate people. Secondly I am not assessing the circumstances a a general matter only to the extent that people are not held at gun point to surrender their money. It is no different than any other sales approach system. Let the buyer beware.

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Osteen's congregation isn't but I am referring to the Robert Tiltons out there. I am really surprised you take such a callous attitude towards it, though maybe I shouldn't be. "Well, no one forced them. They should have known better". There are a lot of desperate people out there who aren't well-educated and who have very little. I guess you think it's just fine for these assholes to con them out of their money with false promises. Stupid poor people are getting what they deserve, right? That is pretty much what you just said. But hey...capitalism!

You might be fine with it. I am not.

Iamtdg said:

So, why are you even arguing with me? This guy is just doing what all churches so, but on a comically self-serving level. That work better for you?

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Iamtdg said:

Read what I wrote again.

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skidadl said:

I do know that Olsteen take a modest (comparatively) salary from the church. Most of his money is from books from what I understand. You still have a problem with that?

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E_D_Guapo said:

Osteen's congregation isn't but I am referring to the Robert Tiltons out there. I am really surprised you take such a callous attitude towards it. "Well, no one forced them. They should have known better". There are a lot of desperate people out there who aren't well-educated and who have very little. I guess you think it's just fine for these assholes to con them out of their money with false promises. Stupid poor people are getting what they deserve, right? That is pretty much what you just said. But hey...capitalism!

You might be fine with it. I am not.

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Correct. Con men scumbags. But, you could say that they are as stupid for giving the money as these "preachers" are for taking it.

E_D_Guapo said:

Osteen's congregation isn't but I am referring to the Robert Tiltons out there. I am really surprised you take such a callous attitude towards it. "Well, no one forced them. They should have known better". There are a lot of people out there who aren't well-educated and who have very little. I guess you think it's just fine for these assholes to take their money. Stupid poor people are getting what they deserve, right? That is pretty much what you just said. But hey...capitalism!

You might be fine with it. I am not.

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Especially sick, elderly and less intelligent people. People Like Tilton are predators. They look for desperate people and sell them on healing, health or getting past desperate situations. That is the most disgusting form of using people ever. I don't know how it works but knowing that the networks let these idiots on TV is terrible.

skidadl said:

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I answered the last post. As far as the top post you quoted, I notice you didn't highlight the "but on a comically self-serving" level" which is what I put in that sentence to distinguish between other churches and what these scum do.

skidadl said:

Especially sick, elderly and less intelligent people. People Like Tilton are predators. They look for desperate people and sell them on healing, health or getting past desperate situations. That is the most disgusting form of using people ever. I don't know how it works but knowing that the networks let these idiots on TV is terrible.

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Exactly. So, why are we arguing again?

skidadl said:

Especially sick, elderly and less intelligent people. People Like Tilton are predators. They look for desperate people and sell them on healing, health or getting past desperate situations. That is the most disgusting form of using people ever. I don't know how it works but knowing that the networks let these idiots on TV is terrible.

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This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't care if Joel Osteen gets filthy rich off of people who can afford to give their money to his ministry. It is the situations you are referring to in this post that make me angry.

Iamtdg said:

Not at all. The pay scale should obviously fluctuate depending on the size of the congregation. I'm not even saying that all preachers should get paid the same. I'm saying (which was my original statement) that some do it for the money (this guy is one of them) and some do it because they are called to do it.

Is there some resentment in me heart stemming from the fact that we were poor? Probably. It doesn't change that a lot of "preachers" in the massive churches are a lot like this scumbag.

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Well then if we agree you are correct. If we would have disagreed you would have been wrong.

E_D_Guapo said:

This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't care if Joel Osteen gets filthy rich off of people who can afford to give their money to his ministry. It is the situations you are referring to in this post that make me angry.

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But, you know all the people that give to him aren't wealthy enough to just give their money away. You know there are some that give that can't really afford it. And, as skid said, they sell hope. All religion does, but these assholes take advantage and sell it on a massive level for their own ultimate gain.

E_D_Guapo said:

Osteen's congregation isn't but I am referring to the Robert Tiltons out there. I am really surprised you take such a callous attitude towards it. "Well, no one forced them. They should have known better". There are a lot of desperate people out there who aren't well-educated and who have very little. I guess you think it's just fine for these assholes to take their money. Stupid poor people are getting what they deserve, right? That is pretty much what you just said. But hey...capitalism!

You might be fine with it. I am not.

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But that is true of virtually everything that is sold or service rendered. The buyer must exercise dilligence in their determination to spend and it isn't just limited to religious organizations. There are charlatans in every walk of life and I defend none of them. What I am saying however is that every person must make their own decision as to what they are willing to do and that is not an endorsement of any unethical or shady practice. If it's dishonest it's dishonest for every business practice. Religious entities shouldn't be singled out for being more dishonest. It's all bad.

Iamtdg said:

I answered the last post. As far as the top post you quoted, I notice you didn't highlight the "but on a comically self-serving" level" which is what I put in that sentence to distinguish between other churches and what these scum do.

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Ah...I see...

L.T. Fan said:

But that is true of virtually everything that is sold or service rendered. The buyer must exercise dilligence in their determination to spend and it isn't just limited to religious organizations. There are charlatans in every walk of life and I defend none of them. What I am saying however is that every person must make their own decision as to what they are willing to do and that is not an endorsement of any unethical or shady practice. If it's dishonest it's dishonest for every business practice. Religious entities shouldn't be singled out for being more dishonest. It's all bad.

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Yes, there are other scum on this planet. That scum is equal to this scum. But, since the thread was about this scum, that's what we are talking about. If you want to point out other scum, start your own damn thread, pal!

Iamtdg said:

Yes, there are other scum on this planet. That scum is equal to this scum. But, since the thread was about this scum, that's what we are talking about. If you want to point out other scum, start your own damn thread, pal!

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I am pointing out that religious organizations shouldn't be singled out as being more dishonest. Do you limit who can post to a thread?

L.T. Fan said:

I am pointing out that religious organizations shouldn't be singled out as being more dishonest. Do you limit who can post to a thread?

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The last part was obviously a joke. The rest was real, though.

L.T. Fan said:

But that is true of virtually everything that is sold or service rendered. The buyer must exercise dilligence in their determination to spend and it isn't just limited to religious organizations. There are charlatans in every walk of life and I defend none of them. What I am saying however is that every person must make their own decision as to what they are willing to do and that is not an endorsement of any unethical or shady practice. If it's dishonest it's dishonest for every business practice. Religious entities shouldn't be singled out for being more dishonest. It's all bad.

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But there is no service rendered in this case. Only false promises and requests to send even more money. And I do find it to be a bit more egregious when con artists hide behind the cloak of religion. Like Skid said, some of these guys are preying on the very weak and desperate. Not everyone has the aptitude/capacity to "beware" or use "diligence" to the necessary degree.

Iamtdg said:

The last part was obviously a joke. The rest was real, though.

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Still trying to pick a fight. No thanks.

E_D_Guapo said:

But there is no service rendered in this case. Only false promises and requests to send even more money. And I do find it to be a bit more egregious when con artists hide behind the cloak of religion. Like Skid said, some of these guys are preying on the very weak and desperate. Not everyone has the aptitude/capacity to "beware" or use "diligence" to the necessary degree.

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So what's the answer? All one can do is have their own choices of what is the worst of the worst.

What is crazy is when you hear about intelligent successful people who get caught up in various scams. It is ridiculous to see.

I read a story a while back about a successful person got caught up in a Nigerian scam of some sort and lost a few hundred thousand. That just blows my mind.

Using religion is the lowest of lows though.

L.T. Fan said:

You and a lot of folks are getting ripped of by the cell phone manufacturers for the price they charge but still you are willing to pay the price rather than getting a cheaper one. It's a matter of your choice as to whether you pay a little or a lot. It's isn't much difference with church goers. Some pay a lot for various reasons but it's their choice. That doesn't make a recipient a scumbag, necessarily.

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The situations couldn't be any more different. People understand in the free market that you pay what you agree to, and that the provider of the goods or services is solely trying to make money. It's a merchant contract.

When you give to an evangelist, or a church, it is a gift.By nature, they are not supposed to be making money from It beyond A living wage.Evangelist Like this guy Are preying (pun very intended) On a very specific and vulnerable aspect of the human psyche.When it is couched in religion, people have a very different set of expectations.

What you have to ask yourself is, why are these people giving their money to these evangelists? I would venture to guess that it is because they think he is doing good and charitable work, that he is spreading the Christian word, and not because they want to make this man filthy rich. It's deceptive and it's slimy.

I will tell you this. I will be a lot more pissed at a garage telling me I needed a new part for my car charge me and not install it than I will at a Pastor telling me I can donate and possibly receive a blessing for it.