Archer: Cowboys have a stake in growing Gavin Escobar's role

Cowboysrock55 said:

Ware was counting way more then that against our cap at the end of his career. I think Witten will probably stay at that price. However I wouldn't be surprised to see Witten take a pay cut either. That guy is a Dallas Cowboy through and through.

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So Witten is immune to salary cap ramifications, look at his actual production and explain why he should count 8 million until 2018?

Jiggyfly said:

So Witten is immune to salary cap ramifications, look at his actual production and explain why he should count 8 million until 2018?

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Because he's still one of the best all around TE's in the league, not the best, but there is a reason that he literally never comes off the field for one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. Aside from his abilities as a receiver, we use him as an inline blocker and as a lead blocker out of the backfield at times.

As a receiver, his numbers last year were right in line with what he has always done in terms of YPC and TD's. The only difference is that his targets went down, which is basically the result of us running more and the fact that our offense has several weapons in the passing game with Dez obviously, as well as Williams as a capable 2 and Beasley developing into a very dangerous slot receiver.

He may not be worth 8 million a year, but 2014 Witten is still very valuable and worth at least about 6 a year, that difference is not worth losing a player of that caliber. If he drops off a cliff this year that is one thing, but if he maintains his level of play from last season, you're basically cutting off your nose to spite your face by trying to prove some philosophical point if you cut him.

Simpleton said:

Because he's still one of the best all around TE's in the league, not the best, but there is a reason that he literally never comes off the field for one of the most dynamic offenses in the league. Aside from his abilities as a receiver, we use him as an inline blocker and as a lead blocker out of the backfield at times.

As a receiver, his numbers last year were right in line with what he has always done in terms of YPC and TD's. The only difference is that his targets went down, which is basically the result of us running more and the fact that our offense has several weapons in the passing game with Dez obviously, as well as Williams as a capable 2 and Beasley developing into a very dangerous slot receiver.

He may not be worth 8 million a year, but 2014 Witten is still very valuable and worth at least about 6 a year, that difference is not worth losing a player of that caliber. If he drops off a cliff this year that is one thing, but if he maintains his level of play from last season, you're basically cutting off your nose to spite your face by trying to prove some philosophical point if you cut him.

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I don't agree he is worth 6 million per, between Beasly and Escobar that recieving production is covered, you could get a comparable blocker far less.

My point is Escobar needs to be developed, we are talking about a cap savings of at least 6 million per in 2016 and 2017 if we move on, is Wittens contribution worth that much cap space?

Escobar needs to take a big step forward blocking wise but as a receiver Witten is not worth that much cap space IMO.

And he is 33 with a lot of mileage I am interested to see how he holds up.

Jiggyfly said:

I don't agree he is worth 6 million per, between Beasly and Escobar that recieving production is covered, you could get a comparable blocker far less.

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Witten is even more effective as a blocker because people have to put guys with cover skills on him. Defenders on Witten have no idea if they are getting blocked or need to backpedal.

Beyond his elite execution as a receiver or blocker, it's hugely rare for such a productive receiver to unselfishly give everything he's got to a zillion running plays per game. It's also a major tone-setter in the locker room.

With Witten going all out on every running play, any receiver on the team would look stupid complaining about blocking. Then you get Dez blocking, and everyone else falls in line. Then success in the running game is a total team victory. I think Witten is the biggest linchpin in that chemistry.

Six million is kind of a steal for that. When Witten finally calls it a day, this offense is going to have a tough, tough time filling his shoes.

Jiggyfly said:

I don't agree he is worth 6 million per, between Beasly and Escobar that recieving production is covered, you could get a comparable blocker far less.

My point is Escobar needs to be developed, we are talking about a cap savings of at least 6 million per in 2016 and 2017 if we move on, is Wittens contribution worth that much cap space?

Escobar needs to take a big step forward blocking wise but as a receiver Witten is not worth that much cap space IMO.

And he is 33 with a lot of mileage I am interested to see how he holds up.

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To just assume that Escobar will be able to replace Witten's production as a receiver is a huge leap of faith considering that he has about 15 career catches. Then you admit that you would have to bring in a blocker to replace what Witten can do in that regard, so under this scenario you basically need 2 guys to cover the production of 1 guy, so you have less versatility on the field at any given time.

The fact of the matter is Witten's all-around game, versatility and leadership is not something you can easily replace without hurting your offense, not to mention the trust Romo has in him. I get what you're saying about Beasley stylistically since he works the same areas of the field that Witten does but defenses still gameplan around Witten, take him off the team and you hurt the rest of our receivers in terms of the coverage they get.

If Witten was putting up 50 catches for 500 yards the last 3 years I would definitely be in favor of getting rid of him at his salary, but his production last year was basically exactly what it has been throughout his entire career with less volume of targets. YPC and TD's were basically the same, receptions and overall yards were down because targets were down.

Bigger things to bitch about than Witten, jeez.

I can't imagine Witten would go anywhere as long as BFF Romo is still on the team. Gotta keep your QB happy.

boozeman said:

Bigger things to bitch about than Witten, jeez.

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Seriously. I'd guess Witten is still close to his prime. He's not the type to have a precipitous drop off.

Genghis Khan said:

Seriously. I'd guess Witten is still close to his prime. He's not the type to have a precipitous drop off.

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Even if he fell off a little, Escobust is not even close to his level.

Sorry, I don't give a eff what he does in practice and how good his hands are supposed to be. I don't think he gets open enough in situations where his size is not the main factor. Not impressed with his route running in the least.

In games the guy looks clumsy and far from a polished product.

boozeman said:

Even if he fell off a little, Escobust is not even close to his level.

Sorry, I don't give a eff what he does in practice and how good his hands are supposed to be. I don't think he gets open enough in situations where his size is not the main factor. Not impressed with his route running in the least.

In games the guy looks clumsy and far from a polished product.

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Not to mention the blocking. For example,the Detroit game last year... when Williams scored that long TD at the end of the half Witten was downfield throwing a key block . Can we trust Escobar to do that?

boozeman said:

Sorry, I don't give a eff

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New drinking game:

Every time booze says 'sorry' you have to take a shot. The first person who's liver liquefies and oozes out their butthole loses. Shouldn't take too long.

Witten can keep going for at least 3 years...he is a plus blocker and it's not like he is going to lose a step, he was never fast to begin with.

Carp said:

Witten can keep going for at least 3 years...he is a plus blocker and it's not like he is going to lose a step, he was never fast to begin with.

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Yes, but at what price?

If t h e Cowboys win a super bowl Witten will probably retire.

Genghis Khan said:

Exactly. Even successful franchise Pittsburgh For instance When what, 20 years or so between Bradshaw and Roethlisberger? San Fran is still trying to replace even young, Miami is still trying to replace Marino,Oakland hasn't had a good quarterback in over a Decade. Even Green Bay, who hit the jackpot between favre And Rogers, went 20 years between Starr and Favre. And it was 20 years of absolute dreck.

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Their team was bad but the Packers got some pretty good passing years out of guys like Lynn Dickey and Don Majkowski.

townsend said:

Frederick and Collins both become FAs in 2018. So I don't think that we'd be worried about Witten by then. Hardy might be a issue but I'd rather cut ties with Carr than Witten.

Even in a less passing focused 2014 offense it was clear Witten was the guy for a crucial 3rd down conversion.

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I think Collins gets paid as soon as he's eligible to get a new deal and Fred gets franchised.

L.T. Fan said:

If t h e Cowboys win a super bowl Witten will probably retire.

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I don't think so. He has a chance to be a lock HOF if he plays a few more years at even decent production. Doesn't seem like a guy who is ready to hang it up to me & I think his place in history is important to him at this point. Should be a HOF if he retires right now IMO but I think he'll want to make sure & is too competitive to hang it up if he has anything at all left. Will stick around at least as long as Romo. If they get one that guy is going to want to try for two for damn sure.

Jiggyfly said:

Yes, but at what price?

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Don't know...was addressing if he will almost done now.