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Thread: The Minimum Wage Debate

  1. #1
    Senior Member Newt's Avatar
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    The Minimum Wage Debate

    I know this got started in another thread, several times, and I don't know why its bothering me more this time than before but I thought it would be good to separate this debate from the others since its seems to be a big subject.

    I'll start off by saying I believe minimum wage is fine where it is. To me, and this is my opinion, minimum wage jobs are for minimum wage people. There is always an exception to the rule, but in general the people who make minimum wage don't want to do anything else. I'll give an example;

    I graduated high school in 2000, attended one semester of jr college and decided that wasn't going to work for me. All through high school I worked minimum wage jobs, sacking groceries, stocking shelves, I even waited tables for a month. None of these were career choices, I had no idea what I wanted to do. After my failed attempt at college life I went to work for Fluor Daniels, a very large construction/maintenance company. My dad was an electrician and he got me hired as a entry level helper. Yes I had a little help and a foot in the door. But even the entry level helper job paid more than minimum wage, I started out at $11.20/hr and because we were working out of town I got $60/day per diem. Not bad for a 18 year old in early 2001.

    There were seven levels of pay for electricians, level 1 thru level 6 helpers, and journeyman. This is were the problem sets in to me for most minimum wage people. At level 1, which is where I started, you are basically a water boy/ditch digger, if you know what needle nose pliers are you might get to use the truck to fill the water jugs. Its a dirty job. But it pays more than minimum wage. Like I said $11.20/hr.

    Within two years I was a top level helper. $17.65/hr for a 20 year old with very little college under his belt. The only reason I wasn't drawing journeyman pay at that point is because I never went and took the test. Still haven't, I'm not in that field anymore. Somehow, I was seen as management material and I was offered a job in the office. It wasn't a management job to start with, at first I did payroll and scheduling. Some end of the year accounting clean up. I did whatever they asked me to do. By the end of 2004, I was the office manager for another project that was kicked off across town. $20.50/hr, and this whole time I'm drawing $60/day per diem.

    I worked for Fluor Daniels a total of 5 years, I went from making $11.20/hr to $22.50/hr in that span. This is 10-15 years ago. I've been told that journeyman electricians make about $26/hr now, and it still only takes about two years to become a journeyman or at least a top helper. Yes I had someone help me get hired, but I saw people get hired through temp services and straight off of the street. There is an 800 number you can call and get human resources, they will put you to work. But for some reason, people today, especially young people, believe they are entitled to start out at the top of the ladder. The believe they are too good to dig a ditch or fetch someones water.

    Here's what I believe, if you can't tell me where the raman noodles are, the cunts running walmart are paying you too much. If you can't make my cheeseburger with mayo and no mustard, the cunts running McDonald's pay you too much. If you can't make change from a five dollar bill without a calculator when the tab is $4.70, the cunts running Taco Bell are paying you too much. And if you are too lazy to get a job, I'm paying you too much.
    For some reason I can't say that phrase out loud, its one of the reasons I will never be the actor Robert Downey Jr is. I always say Tastey Peabag instead of Pastey Teabag, and thats a really big difference on just a two letter swing.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    Last edited by L.T. Fan; 01-10-2015 at 11:19 AM.
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    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    The starting point for wages in general is primarily based on the value placed on what kind of production the employees job will yield. Starting at level entry jobs there may be a lot of effort and labor involved but the job yields little or no income. As the process evolves different jobs may require more effort by some than others but the barometer of value still is in the ability of these efforts to yield income. The higher the production of income the more value is placed on the price of the efforts expended be it heavy or light. The minimum wage is simply an arbitrary number that is thought to be the minimum amount anyone should be paid for any level of effort. This is more of an econimic theorem but its not possible to actually value time in the workplace so production becomes the value component.
    Last edited by L.T. Fan; 01-10-2015 at 11:27 AM.
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    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    Another posting brain fart.
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  6. #5
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newt
    And if you are too lazy to get a job, I'm paying you too much.

  7. #6
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Absolutely agree. If you want to make more money it's not that hard. I, too, had to bust my ass to get to where I am. It takes a little smarts and a lot of hard work, but it isn't that damn difficult.

    I also failed in my college experience. Mainly because I was on all kinds of drugs and couldn't get my head on straight. Me and the wife finally decided we wanted to have kids. So, it was either the drugs or a family. We chose to have a family, so I got a job with the state working on the frontlines. I think I made something like 9 bucks an hour when I started almost 15 years ago. I now make around $28/hour. I just busted my ass every day, and showed that I could learn and retain what I learned. I was lucky enough to have a boss that recognized that and didn't hold my lack of a degree over my head. He saw that I could be an asset, and I have done my best not to let him down in his assessment.

    It's not that people can't get a job, or that minimum wage is too low. It's that people want something for nothing and refuse to put in the work to make more than minimum wage. They want the government to step in and force their employers to pay them more than they are worth. Well, guess what, you bunch of lazy shits, you should have to work for it just like I did. Work hard or GTFO.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Clay_Allison's Avatar
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    Raising the minimum wage doesn't help minimum wage workers. Those people will just end up having to buy more expensive food, gas and other necessities as their cost of living increases along with minimum wage.

  9. #8
    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    I will say this in addition to what i stated above. Most any job that are government funded at any level.has virtually no production to it. Government is essentially a service system therefore actual production to the economy is limited to expenditures and at best is a venue to redistribute tax revenues. There are a few exceptions but not many. The minimum wage is almost completely eradicated for government jobs. That is the biggest irony in the entire process of minimum wage jobs.
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  11. #9
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.T. Fan View Post
    I will say this in addition to what i stated above. Most any job that are government funded at any level.has virtually no production to it. Government is essentially a service system therefore actual production to the economy is limited to expenditures and at best is a venue to redistribute tax revenues. There are a few exceptions but not many. The minimum wage is almost completely eradicated for government jobs. That is the biggest irony in the entire process of minimum wage jobs.
    Did you just call me worthless as a state employee?

  12. #10
    Senior Member L.T. Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iamtdg View Post
    Did you just call me worthless as a state employee?
    No i said that government jobs fly in the face of what is debated about minimum wages. The government payroll structures are largely based on time value rather than production value.
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