Mosely says we are taking one of these three

VA Cowboy · Apr 25, 2013

Cowboysrock55 said:
I hope but with Wagner, Lee, Carter all pegged for us in the second round over the last few drafts I'm still concerned. Those are all 4-3 LBer types.

But we were a 3-4 at the time. Can't imagine fixating on LB's while running 4-3.

Rev said:
Been there. Done that.

Yep. Hopefully this time we'll do better than Carver, Pittman, Ekuban, etc.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

VA Cowboy said:
But we were a 3-4 at the time. Can't imagine fixating on LB's while running 4-3.

Yep. Hopefully this time we'll do better than Carver, Pittman, Ekuban, etc.

Jerry became fixated on replacing existing players and the damned draft equivalence chart.

In 1994 Carver was a wild miss, and they traded up to get him on top of it. It's what happens when you've convinced yourself you have to find another Charles Haley and try to force the draft to fit. The real trade opportunity was with the Rams who wanted Alvin Harper and had something like the 7th pick. Imagine how sick a pairing of Leon Lett with Bryant Young would have been inside.

Jerrah traded down in 1996 despite Brackens falling unexpectedly right to him. He focused on the damned chart value of Dallas' slot in the first round and not the value of the best player available at the slot (Brackens). There was no hindsight involved at all, Dallas had Brackens ranked as a high first rounder and could have easily just drafted him. Instead they opted to trade out for a stupid third round pick.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

Carp said:
I just can't believe this is a thought process that they are going over right now. Eifert should not even be in the discussion...baffling if true, and infuriating. I do think that someone will save us though...particularly Miami at 12.

So if a player who's been rumored to go at 12 or 13 falls to 18 and Dallas takes him, it's bad?

Cotton · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
So if a player who's been rumored to go at 12 or 13 falls to 18 and Dallas takes him, it's bad?

You are too fixated on BPA. Need has to play a role as well. There is a balance that has to be kept.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

Iamtdg said:
You are too fixated on BPA. Need has to play a role as well. There is a balance that has to be kept.

Needs change quickly because of injuries, draft, FAs, and street pickups. Right now Moore, Clabo, and Winston are out there waiting to fill needs at G or RT. You might find a third round pick, a street guy, or even Parnell or Leary steps up and emerge as solid starters. What if you take Fluker and four guys you ranked higher all went later and had better careers? You'll look back and wonder "if only" you didn't have to reach for an OL back in 2013.

We've already felt that remorse for having been forced to take Tyron Smith in 2011 because he filled a desperate need when the team had JJ Watt high on their list. I'll bet they ignored all rankings and just took Smith. Looking back on it, the OL still sucked arse and JJ Watt has made the biggest impact of any defensive player drafted in over a decade. We were fortunate Smith didn't get Romo killed early in 2011, though it ended up not mattering because Free did that all by himself getting his ribs busted in SF.

Forcing the draft to fill needs not only usually costs you a better player, but trying to force a raw, borderline overweight player like Fluker into the starting lineup game 1 is just as risky as anything else. He might be ready, he might not be. If you draft him 7th overall, then he'd damned well better be.

VA Cowboy · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
Jerry became fixated on replacing existing players and the damned draft equivalence chart.

In 1994 Carver was a wild miss..

Jerrah traded down in 1996 despite Brackens falling ...

Those years make me throw up in my mouth. Actually the entire last 17-18 years do.

VA Cowboy · Apr 25, 2013

Iamtdg said:
You are too fixated on BPA. Need has to play a role as well. There is a balance that has to be kept.

There does have to be a balance. But if a player is clearly the BPA head and shoulders ahead of everyone else, then there should be trade value if you have no need/interest.

IMO, Eifert wouldn't be a clear cut BPA to trump other similarly rated players at positions of need.

Simpleton · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
Needs change quickly because of injuries, draft, FAs, and street pickups. Right now Moore, Clabo, and Winston are out there waiting to fill needs at G or RT. You might find a third round pick, a street guy, or even Parnell or Leary steps up and emerge as solid starters. What if you take Fluker and four guys you ranked higher all went later and had better careers? You'll look back and wonder "if only" you didn't have to reach for an OL back in 2013.

We've already felt that remorse for having been forced to take Tyron Smith in 2011 because he filled a desperate need when the team had JJ Watt high on their list. I'll bet they ignored all rankings and just took Smith. Looking back on it, the OL still sucked arse and JJ Watt has made the biggest impact of any defensive player drafted in over a decade. We were fortunate Smith didn't get Romo killed early in 2011, though it ended up not mattering because Free did that all by himself getting his ribs busted in SF.

Forcing the draft to fill needs not only usually costs you a better player, but trying to force a raw, borderline overweight player like Fluker into the starting lineup game 1 is just as risky as anything else. He might be ready, he might not be. If you draft him 7th overall, then he'd damned well better be.

Your assumption that we took Smith despite having Watt higher is pure speculation considering the fact that Smith was generally rated higher throughout the whole process and that the only Pro Day attended by Garrett was Smith's.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

Simpleton said:
Your assumption that we took Smith despite having Watt higher is pure speculation considering the fact that Smith was generally rated higher throughout the whole process and that the only Pro Day attended by Garrett was Smith's.

True, but even if they had Watt ranked higher would they have drafted him?

Cotton · Apr 25, 2013

VA Cowboy said:
There does have to be a balance. But if a player is clearly the BPA head and shoulders ahead of everyone else, then there should be trade value if you have no need/interest.

IMO, Eifert wouldn't be a clear cut BPA to trump other similarly rated players at positions of need.

Of course, but Eifert ain't that.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

VA Cowboy said:
There does have to be a balance. But if a player is clearly the BPA head and shoulders ahead of everyone else, then there should be trade value if you have no need/interest.

IMO, Eifert wouldn't be a clear cut BPA to trump other similarly rated players at positions of need.

I agree with you based on what I've seen, but if the Cowboys scouts really think Eifert's the next Novacek, they should draft him.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
I agree with you based on what I've seen, but if the Cowboys scouts really think Eifert's the next Novacek, they should draft him.

Players success in this league is based on two things. Talent and circumstances. If you put Jay Novacek in the wrong circumstances he would have never flourished and you probably wouldn't know his name today. Being stuck behind Witten for the next 5 years would make drafting Eifert a bust, even if his talent dictates otherwise. If Eifert is some super stud talent then trade out to one of the other teams who will be desperate to draft him.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

Cowboysrock55 said:
If you put Jay Novacek in the wrong circumstances he would have never flourished and you probably wouldn't know his name today.

He flourished even in Arizona before they decided they couldn't re-sign him and Plan B'ed him. If a player can run the routes they are supposed to and gain separation Tony Romo will exploit that every time. Novacek was deceptively fast and made up for a lack of elite team speed overall by creating separation.

Tavon Austin could clear our zones because of raw speed, but would work best on third down from three-wide formation. Jay Novacek could do that in the intermediate to deep middle on any down. If Eifert is like Novacek then he could do it from a 2-TE formation also on any down. Basically that formation gives the Cowboys a lot of flexibility if Eifert can run routes better than Martellus Bennett, and I'd be willing to bet he can.

I'm not claiming Eifert's Novacek, BTW, just continuing the discussion if the Cowboys have ranked Eifert like he was Jay II.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
He flourished even in Arizona before they decided they couldn't re-sign him and Plan B'ed him. If a player can run the routes they are supposed to and gain separation Tony Romo will exploit that every time.

The problem is you have to run 2 TE sets and you have to have both TEs in that set running routes. Then you have to convince Romo that throwing to Eifert is a better idea then throwing to his favorite target in Witten.

We have already seen how this game plays out and it didn't play out well for the second TE. Both Fasano and Bennett had their career years and became starters the year they left Dallas. They weren't total garbage players, but they performed like it in Dallas because the circumstances where poor for them. I promise you would see a similar outcome with Eifert in Dallas.

VA Cowboy · Apr 25, 2013

Cowboysrock55 said:
The problem is you have to run 2 TE sets and you have to have both TEs in that set running routes. Then you have to convince Romo that throwing to Eifert is a better idea then throwing to his favorite target in Witten.

Exactly. Until Witten is done there's no need in taking a TE high in the draft because he'll just be wasted. Blocking TE's can be had later and a backup to Witten can be had later. Until we are ready to replace Witten then a top tier TE makes no sense.

ravidubey · Apr 25, 2013

Cowboysrock55 said:
We have already seen how this game plays out and it didn't play out well for the second TE. Both Fasano and Bennett had their career years and became starters the year they left Dallas. They weren't total garbage players, but they performed like it in Dallas because the circumstances where poor for them. I promise you would see a similar outcome with Eifert in Dallas.

Fasano was traded away recklessly for "war daddy" and Bennett couldn't run routes. Fasano was better than average, but not a difference-maker.

When they let Bennett play as a receiver in 2008 Romo found him plenty enough and he made some huge plays. Bennett took a big step back in 2009, maybe read too many press clippings. Hell, Bennett's biggest problem might have been being too good a blocker. Remember how useful Hannah was by the end of last year?

I believe if you can run routes well and gain separation that Tony Romo will find you. Witten's biggest problem has been the redzone as he separates best with space to move. A quicker player might make all the difference in the world in the redzone. If Tavon Austin is gone, then Eifert might be the best receiving option on the board by far when Dallas picks.

Again, it all depends on how highly they've ranked him. It sounds like you would rather have an OL or DL even if he was the 20th best player on the board vs a player Dallas might have ranked as high as 15th or even 10th?

VA Cowboy · Apr 25, 2013

ravidubey said:
Fasano was traded away recklessly for "war daddy" and Bennett couldn't run routes. Fasano was better than average, but not a difference-maker.

This was one of the dumbest moves I've seen us make and that says alot. Fasano wasn't all that but he was a decent young TE. Trading him and then drafting another TE in the 2nd round while still having Witten in his prime was and still is mind-boggling. And then we also threw in a role-player LB to sweeten the deal.

EZ22 · Apr 25, 2013

VA Cowboy said:
@clarencehilljr i like eifert.but he is not a blocker

To be fair, neither was Witten when he was coming out of Tennessee.

SfielDallas · Apr 25, 2013

Trading Fasano was out of spite

Tony D · Apr 25, 2013

The trade wasn't a "rape rape", but we could've gotten a 5th or 6th thrown in.

Mosely says we are taking one of these three

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