Draft Chatter Thread...

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VA Cowboy

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Once again it comes down to the talent at the top of the draft. Good but no dominant must-have players. All of the possible targets, Wentz/Goff, Bosa, Buckner, Jack, Ramsey are good players but all have flaws. Any of them could possibly turn out to be annual all-pros or just decent players. But if we stay put we'll end up taking one of them.

Thats why if no one really stands out and we don't go QB I'd prefer trading down and stockpiling a couple more high round picks since it is a deep draft overall. Best bet is if we don't want Goff and can trade with the 49ers, but most likely we'll pick one of these guys at 4, probably on defense. So do we want a LDE in Bosa, DT/DE Buckner or a Bowman type LB in Jack?
 

Simpleton

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I watched his game video on draftbreakdown vs Ohio State last year and Michigan State this year.

I simply do not see what the fuss is about.

At. All.
Buckner does not have juice coming off the edge, it's as simple as that, combine that with the fact that Oregon often asked him to 2-gap and that he was going up against a 1st round OT and I wouldn't imagine that you'd see much out of him in that game.

With that said, he has a whole boatload of potential as an interior pass-rusher in a 1-gap system like ours, and if we were to draft him I assume that would be one of the first things we'd ask out of him. I watched his game against Stanford and he literally put Josh Garnett on his ass about 3 or 4 times, like, he was straight up on the ground several times when matched up with Buckner in pass protection. This is an OG who probably goes in the 2nd round and most people would list his strength/power as one of his top attributes.

This is why I've said that I like Buckner more as a DT or 1 technique than a DE, he doesn't have juice coming off the edge at all, but he is a better interior pass-rusher than guys like Rankins, Billings, Robinson or any other DT who goes in the 1st round, and he's still solid against the run.

I don't know this for sure, but I assume that if we draft Buckner it is primarily as a DT who will rotate with Crawford/Thornton and flex out to strong side DE from time to time in base packages. For all intents and purposes we'd be drafting a DT with a high ceiling as a pass-rusher.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I think Rankins could give him a run for his money potentially as an interior rusher but otherwise I agree. The difference is Buckner's height would be a nightmare for QBs trying to find passing lanes. You just can't throw over a 6'7" guy very easily.

He actually shows a little juice and bend as an end but the problem is he lacks that closing burst in the open field to really rack up big sack numbers from DE.

Ultimately our DE position will probably live or die by guys already on the roster. Mainly Gregory once he clears his suspension.
 

Plan9Misfit

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Dark Prescott arrested for DUI.

Just take Wentz or Goff.
The collective dumbshits in our front office will now convince themselves that rockstar egomaniac Connor Cook should be the pick in the 3rd round.
 

boozeman

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Teams Have Hard-Party Drug Concerns with Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliott
Updated March 15, 2016
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

Eastern Kentucky edge rusher Noah Spence was a standout pass-rusher at Ohio State before positive tests for the party drug ecstasy led to him being kicked out of the program. At the Senior Bowl, teams interviewed Spence about his issues at Ohio State, and while he wouldn't name names, he said that he wasn't the only Buckeye player who was using ecstasy while partying. In speaking with sources at multiple teams, two of the players that teams suspect for that type of partying are defensive end Joey Bosa and running back Ezekiel Elliott.

To be clear, neither player had a positive drug test for ecstasy or molly (MDMA). However, Bosa was suspended for the opening game of the 2016 NFL season. Ohio State didn't clarify the exact offense for the suspension, but Bosa told teams during the NFL Combine interviews that he was suspended because he refused to take a drug test. That counted as a positive and thus he was automatically slapped with the suspension.

Bosa told teams that he wouldn't take the test because he was going to test positive for adderall. He is said to have ADHD or ADD, so teams wouldn't have held that positive test for adderall against him and they feel he should have just gotten a prescription for the medication. Teams believe that Bosa knew he was going to test positive for worse drugs and that is why he refused to take the test. Bosa wouldn't admit to using ecstasy or molly, but he did admit that he likes to attend raves. He claimed that he likes going to raves for the "music," which teams found to be very questionable. Molly and ecstasy are common drugs used at raves.

At Ohio State, Bosa was a roommate with Ezekiel Elliott. Apparently, their shared place was a party destination, and Bosa told teams that he had to move out and get his own place to get away from all the parties that Elliott had going on. Sources say they suspect that Elliott was also using molly and ecstasy while parting. A number of Elliott's teammates in the Combine interviews told teams that Elliott was a partier, and a unique individual. They said they hung out with him some, but he rubbed some the wrong way. Sources from multiple teams said that Elliott didn't interview well at the Combine, while Bosa had mixed feedback. The skepticism of why he goes to raves and the refusal of the drug test bothered some evaluators.

Lastly, teams said they don't expect these concerns to have an impact on the draft stock of either player. They firmly expect Bosa to go in the top 10 and Elliott to be selected in the top 20. Sources don't believe either is a candidate to slide. Teams in the 20s expect Elliott to be long gone, while sources with the Titans have said that Bosa is still in the running for the No. 1 overall pick to Tennessee, but Florida State defensive back Jalen Ramsey is the current leader with the Titans (see below). While teams suspect Bosa and Elliott of using those drugs, they don't have view them as risks like Randy Gregory last year. Teams don't think that Bosa and Elliott are serious candidates to be landing suspensions and testing positive in the NFL. Thus, both should be high draft picks in the 2016 NFL Draft.
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I will not tolerate that pot head Bosa slandering Zeke like this.
 

E_D_Guapo

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Is Bosa really that good? Everything I hear is that he should not be expected to be a double digit sack guy but that he is a good all-around player. That's great at #21 overall. At #4 though? Seems like a need pick that Dallas will force if they go that direction. You guys that pay a lot more attention to the draft can set me straight if I am off the mark here. Maybe I am.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that you don't take a RB at #4 anymore because the position is 'devalued'. OK. But what if he is very good in all phases of the game and is considered a dynamic player? Isn't that the book on Elliot? If so then why would'nt he not be in play at #4? Because other decent RBs can be drafted later? OK. But not nearly as good as Elliot, right? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there is another player at another position that is a true difference maker then fine, but if they force the pick of a good, not great DL instead then I think it is a mistake despite the perceived positional value.
 
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Cotton

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Is Bosa really that good? Everything I hear is that he should not be expected to be a double digit sack guy but that he is a good all-around player. That's great at #21 overall. At #4 though? Seems like a need pick that Dallas will force if they go that direction. You guys that pay a lot more attention to the draft can set me straight if I am off the mark here. Maybe I am.
I am not a fan of Bosa's and this just solidifies me not wanting to take him. I think he is a douchebag prick that is late first round talent at best, now with off-field concerns. No thanks.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I also don't subscribe to the idea that you don't take a RB at #4 anymore because the position is 'devalued'. OK. But what if he is very good in all phases of the game and is considered a dynamic player? Isn't that the book on Elliot? If so then why would'nt he not be in play at #4?
I don't like Bosa's personality but I think he is getting over analyzed a little too much. He might not be an elite speed rush ala Ware but there are other ways to get to the QB. Having strength, and size and physicality can also help you get to the QB. Guys like Carlos Dunlap, JJ Watt and others aren't necessarily the elite speed rushers but their total game allows them to dominate. That's more what you are hoping for out of Bosa. He is a long 6'5" player who is going to play in the 270-280 pound range and who you expect to use a combination of speed and power to beat offensive tackles. He could easily be a double digit sack NFL guy.
 

E_D_Guapo

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I don't like Bosa's personality but I think he is getting over analyzed a little too much. He might not be an elite speed rush ala Ware but there are other ways to get to the QB. Having strength, and size and physicality can also help you get to the QB. Guys like Carlos Dunlap, JJ Watt and others aren't necessarily the elite speed rushers but their total game allows them to dominate. That's more what you are hoping for out of Bosa. He is a long 6'5" player who is going to play in the 270-280 pound range and who you expect to use a combination of speed and power to beat offensive tackles. He could easily be a double digit sack NFL guy.
OK, fair enough. But is he in play at #4 because he is that good or is it because teams put such a premium on pass rushers and this draft lacks truly high-end options? Or is he the legit high-end option? What was the best draft class for pass rushers in recent memory in your opinion? Where would Bosa have gone in that draft? Just looking for some perspective here because I quit following this stuff closely quite a while ago.
 

Cowboysrock55

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OK, fair enough. But is he in play at #4 because he is that good or is it because teams put such a premium on pass rushers and this draft lacks truly high-end options? Or is he the legit high end option? What was the best draft class for pass rushers in recent memory in your opinion? Where would Bosa have gone in that draft? Just looking for some perspective here because I quit following this stuff closely quite a while ago.
Bosa has always been considered a high first. Or at least he was ever since his sophomore year when he posted 13.5 sacks and was named Big Ten defensive player of the year. Oddly enough his JR year was probably his least productive (Posted 7.5 sacks as a freshman). He still posted a lot of TFL's as a JR but his sack numbers plummeted to 5. Some have argued it is because he received lots of attention with blocking. Which I'm sure he did. It makes me a little nervous but when you look at the entire 3 year career it's still pretty impressive. I don't think anyone on here would claim I'm a big Bosa fan but I think he is a legit top end prospect.
 

Donpingon

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Bosa has always been considered a high first. Or at least he was ever since his sophomore year when he posted 13.5 sacks and was named Big Ten defensive player of the year. Oddly enough his JR year was probably his least productive (Posted 7.5 sacks as a freshman). He still posted a lot of TFL's as a JR but his sack numbers plummeted to 5. Some have argued it is because he received lots of attention with blocking. Which I'm sure he did. It makes me a little nervous but when you look at the entire 3 year career it's still pretty impressive. I don't think anyone on here would claim I'm a big Bosa fan but I think he is a legit top end prospect.
I like his style of play and ranginess. I just hate the idea of passing on Goff or Wentz
 

Cowboysrock55

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I like his style of play and ranginess. I just hate the idea of passing on Goff or Wentz
Yeah if I don't draft a QB and I can't get a trade down then Bosa is still my guy. Buckner is a close second. Oddly enough Ramsey is probably third.

Of course what I really want is QB or trade down.
 

Simpleton

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Bosa has been considered a top 10 prospect for over a year now and yes, I think he's being overanalyzed. I understand the concerns people have for sure although I think there is alot to like about him as a prospect. He reminds me of Michael Bennett, an excellent strong side DE who you can kick inside in nickel/dime but you don't really want him on the weak side.

But yea, my first option is QB, second is trade down, after that I go back and forth between guys like Bosa, Buckner, Jack and Elliott.
 

Donpingon

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I only like the idea of trading down if it means we can get a king's ransom from someone looking for a QB, which I think is very possible. However, I think that only happens if the competition thinks we're very likely to take a QB. Works both ways I guess...
 

Jiggyfly

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Is Bosa really that good? Everything I hear is that he should not be expected to be a double digit sack guy but that he is a good all-around player. That's great at #21 overall. At #4 though? Seems like a need pick that Dallas will force if they go that direction. You guys that pay a lot more attention to the draft can set me straight if I am off the mark here. Maybe I am.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that you don't take a RB at #4 anymore because the position is 'devalued'. OK. But what if he is very good in all phases of the game and is considered a dynamic player? Isn't that the book on Elliot? If so then why would'nt he not be in play at #4? Because other decent RBs can be drafted later? OK. But not nearly as good as Elliot, right? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there is another player at another position that is a true difference maker then fine, but if they force the pick of a good, not great DL instead then I think it is a mistake despite the perceived positional value.
I think you are off on the other RB's not being nearly as good as Elliot, I don't think the talent gap is so great between Henry and Elliott. Yes Elliott is the better player but I think the talent gap of other positions is much greater like say Jack or Buckmer or Ramsey to what you could get at 34.

It's about maximizing your resources, I don't see how Elliott makes that much more of an impact than Henry to overcome the price of the #4 pick.
 

Jiggyfly

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Teams Have Hard-Party Drug Concerns with Joey Bosa, Ezekiel Elliott
Updated March 15, 2016
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell

Eastern Kentucky edge rusher Noah Spence was a standout pass-rusher at Ohio State before positive tests for the party drug ecstasy led to him being kicked out of the program. At the Senior Bowl, teams interviewed Spence about his issues at Ohio State, and while he wouldn't name names, he said that he wasn't the only Buckeye player who was using ecstasy while partying. In speaking with sources at multiple teams, two of the players that teams suspect for that type of partying are defensive end Joey Bosa and running back Ezekiel Elliott.

To be clear, neither player had a positive drug test for ecstasy or molly (MDMA). However, Bosa was suspended for the opening game of the 2016 NFL season. Ohio State didn't clarify the exact offense for the suspension, but Bosa told teams during the NFL Combine interviews that he was suspended because he refused to take a drug test. That counted as a positive and thus he was automatically slapped with the suspension.

Bosa told teams that he wouldn't take the test because he was going to test positive for adderall. He is said to have ADHD or ADD, so teams wouldn't have held that positive test for adderall against him and they feel he should have just gotten a prescription for the medication. Teams believe that Bosa knew he was going to test positive for worse drugs and that is why he refused to take the test. Bosa wouldn't admit to using ecstasy or molly, but he did admit that he likes to attend raves. He claimed that he likes going to raves for the "music," which teams found to be very questionable. Molly and ecstasy are common drugs used at raves.

At Ohio State, Bosa was a roommate with Ezekiel Elliott. Apparently, their shared place was a party destination, and Bosa told teams that he had to move out and get his own place to get away from all the parties that Elliott had going on. Sources say they suspect that Elliott was also using molly and ecstasy while parting. A number of Elliott's teammates in the Combine interviews told teams that Elliott was a partier, and a unique individual. They said they hung out with him some, but he rubbed some the wrong way. Sources from multiple teams said that Elliott didn't interview well at the Combine, while Bosa had mixed feedback. The skepticism of why he goes to raves and the refusal of the drug test bothered some evaluators.

Lastly, teams said they don't expect these concerns to have an impact on the draft stock of either player. They firmly expect Bosa to go in the top 10 and Elliott to be selected in the top 20. Sources don't believe either is a candidate to slide. Teams in the 20s expect Elliott to be long gone, while sources with the Titans have said that Bosa is still in the running for the No. 1 overall pick to Tennessee, but Florida State defensive back Jalen Ramsey is the current leader with the Titans (see below). While teams suspect Bosa and Elliott of using those drugs, they don't have view them as risks like Randy Gregory last year. Teams don't think that Bosa and Elliott are serious candidates to be landing suspensions and testing positive in the NFL. Thus, both should be high draft picks in the 2016 NFL Draft.
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I will not tolerate that pot head Bosa slandering Zeke like this.
I think this is much ado about nothing, it sounds like something teams would float to get a guy to drop.

I would venture to guess you could say the same things about half of the 1st round, who the hell did not party in college and would Elliotts teamates really snitch on him like that?

I do get an Arion Foster vibe to Elliott, he is not going to be a company guy, I could see him and Garrett having issues.
 

Jiggyfly

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OK, fair enough. But is he in play at #4 because he is that good or is it because teams put such a premium on pass rushers and this draft lacks truly high-end options? Or is he the legit high-end option? What was the best draft class for pass rushers in recent memory in your opinion? Where would Bosa have gone in that draft? Just looking for some perspective here because I quit following this stuff closely quite a while ago.
I think Bosa would be a top 10-15 guy in most drafts but he is pretty clearly a top 5 talent in this draft.
 
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