Poll: Obama worst president since WWII

skidadl said:

Jiggy cracks me up. Trying to pass off that whole you-can't-possibly-understand-my-people mantra. Whatever, dude. Nobody has to be in someone else's shoes to know what is right and wrong. Tryina play on white guilt. I'd venture to say that LT knows more about life than anyone on this board. Puuleaaazzz with all of that crap.

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What the hell are you talking about, I asked a simple question about who he had been exposed to socially I never said he was wrong for how he felt.

This is not a question of right and wrong its about perception and opinion and I wanted to know how he was coming to these perceptions.

Just because your older does not mean you know more about life than others, especially if said life has been spent around a particular social circle, I am not saying LT is not a wise man but knowing about life has more to do experiences than age.

What is the right and wrong question here anyway?

L.T. Fan said:

Well that is the basic question for debate isn't it. Is everyone in our society "entitled" to have certain things at the expense of others? We have come full circle.

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That is the basic question and the use of the word entitled is very loaded, I don't agree people are entitled to anything but I do agree with more affordable health care.

Will this work in the long run I don't know, but a fix was needed hopefully this will work itself out and become viable.

Iamtdg said:

I'm praying it will be repealed just as soon as that moron is out of office.

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Entitlements never get repealed. Too many people suckling at the teet of free shit and politicians need their votes.

Jiggyfly said:

That is the basic question and the use of the word entitled is very loaded, I don't agree people are entitled to anything but I do agree with more affordable health care.

Will this work in the long run I don't know, but a fix was needed hopefully this will work itself out and become viable.

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Having more affordable health care was never the question I was addressing. It was are some entitled to have something "at the expense of others". I have absolutely no problem with affordable health care. I do have a problem with the idea that it should be an entitlement for everyone. This means that someone else must foot the bill. It's not a equitable proposal rather it is a view that someone can arbitrarily take from others and distribute it as they see fit. It's a view and philosophy that is abhorrent to the system of free enterprise. Having said that I do not need a lifetime of diverse human exposure to arrive at that decision. I am now tableing the subject because I cannot provide any further clarity to my position.

Jiggyfly said:

That is the basic question and the use of the word entitled is very loaded, I don't agree people are entitled to anything but I do agree with more affordable health care.

Will this work in the long run I don't know, but a fix was needed hopefully this will work itself out and become viable.

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Having more affordable health care was never the question I was addressing. It was are some entitled to have something "at the expense of others". I have absolutely no problem with affordable health care. I do have a problem with the idea that it should be an entitlement for everyone. This means that someone else must foot the bill. It's not a equitable proposal rather it is a view that someone can arbitrarily take from others and distribute it as they see fit. It's a view and philosophy that is abhorrent to the system of free enterprise. Having said that I do not need a lifetime of diverse human exposure to arrive at that decision. I am now tableing the subject because I cannot provide any further clarity to my position. Tableing my discussion with Jiggy. Roger.Roger.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Entitlements never get repealed. Too many people suckling at the teet of free shit and politicians need their votes.

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I don't see where the entitlement comes in. It's just an individual mandate that comes at an inflated cost. That's why it's not popular. No one is getting any free shit out of it.

Clay_Allison said:

I don't see where the entitlement comes in. It's just an individual mandate that comes at an inflated cost. That's why it's not popular. No one is getting any free shit out of it.

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The big winners in this isn't those who will have coverage because they will have to pay more than before. It is the insurance industry. This is a huge windfall for them.

L.T. Fan said:

Having more affordable health care was never the question I was addressing. It was are some entitled to have something "at the expense of others". I have absolutely no problem with affordable health care. I do have a problem with the idea that it should be an entitlement for everyone. This means that someone else must foot the bill. It's not a equitable proposal rather it is a view that someone can arbitrarily take from others and distribute it as they see fit. It's a view and philosophy that is abhorrent to the system of free enterprise. Having said that I do not need a lifetime of diverse human exposure to arrive at that decision. I am now tableing the subject because I cannot provide any further clarity to my position.

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Free Enterprise it not some holy grail to be achieved at all cost in a civilized society, and the U.S. is not a pure free enterprise society and that goes back to the dismantling of monopolies.

Clay_Allison said:

I don't see where the entitlement comes in. It's just an individual mandate that comes at an inflated cost. That's why it's not popular. No one is getting any free shit out of it.

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Sure it is, what do you think subsidized insurance exchanges mean?

Cowboysrock55 said:

Sure it is, what do you think subsidized insurance exchanges mean?

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Subsidized doesn't always mean cheap. I read an article that doctors in San Diego were refusing new patients in order to avoid getting stuck with it. Not even the people who are supposed to like this shit like it. I think it'll get dismantled even if it's just to replace it with another entitlement that is a lot more straightforward and cuts out the corporate middle men.

Clay_Allison said:

Subsidized doesn't always mean cheap. I read an article that doctors in San Diego were refusing new patients in order to avoid getting stuck with it. Not even the people who are supposed to like this shit like it. I think it'll get dismantled even if it's just to replace it with another entitlement that is a lot more straightforward and cuts out the corporate middle men.

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You mean, like Medicaid?

Iamtdg said:

You mean, like Medicaid?

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Probably. If health care was what they wanted to do, they would have done that. The ACA was a money grab by corrupt politicians working for health insurance companies that wanted to cash in on the subsidies and the individual mandate.

Jiggyfly said:

What the hell are you talking about, I asked a simple question about who he had been exposed to socially I never said he was wrong for how he felt.

This is not a question of right and wrong its about perception and opinion and I wanted to know how he was coming to these perceptions.

Just because your older does not mean you know more about life than others, especially if said life has been spent around a particular social circle, I am not saying LT is not a wise man but knowing about life has more to do experiences than age.

What is the right and wrong question here anyway?

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A person doesn't have to have every type of life experience in order understand it. You are simply talking about being able to empathize with someone. That is not by any stretch a requirement to have the wisdom to be able to see what needs to be done in a certain situation. LTs lack of exposure (if that's the case) to a wide variety of poeple is irrelevant in this situation.

I'd venture to say that I have some of the widest variance of social experience as anyone here. Not saying the most or anything just that I've seen a lot in my life and lived a lot. I certainly don't think that LT or anyone else needs to nessacarily be where In been I'm order to understand what could be helpful or hurtful for my life. Things like the main topic that this thread morphed into is applicable as well.

Reagan was definitely the best. Obama has edged out Carter as the worst.

VA Cowboy said:

Reagan was definitely the best. Obama has edged out Carter as the worst.

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Obama and Bush are the same guy because they're governing basically the same way, and they both suck(ed) worse than Carter. At least Carter made it legal to brew beer in your home.

Plan9Misfit said:

Obama and Bush are the same guy

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Yeah, but at least Bush had real GOP power brokers sticking their hand up his ass and working his head.

Corrupt as shit, yes. But they were experienced and gave a good show.

Obama has perhaps some of the worst people around him on his staff. It is incredible how bad some of them are.

boozeman said:

Yeah, but at least Bush had real GOP power brokers sticking their hand up his ass and working his head.

Corrupt as shit, yes. But they were experienced and gave a good show.

Obama has perhaps some of the worst people around him on his staff. It is incredible how bad some of them are.

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I will admit that there seems to be a lot of incompetence around him and that he has been playing catch up entirely to much.

If there are only incompetent people around him, he can credibly argue that he only had incompetent options to choose from.

It ain't poor Barry's fault, he just had bad choices to make...

God forbid he have someone with a national defense backriund in his national security meetings

boozeman said:

Yeah, but at least Bush had real GOP power brokers sticking their hand up his ass and working his head.

Corrupt as shit, yes. But they were experienced and gave a good show.

Obama has perhaps some of the worst people around him on his staff. It is incredible how bad some of them are.

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In my opinion, he surrounds himself with these incompetent assholes because it gives him an excuse. He can just hide behind their idiocy instead of taking responsibility for destroying the country. Just look who he picked as his Vice President for a classic example of this. Obama surrounds himself with buffoons as a cover. He knows exactly what he is doing.

shane said:

In my opinion, he surrounds himself with these incompetent assholes because it gives him an excuse. He can just hide behind their idiocy instead of taking responsibility for destroying the country. Just look who he picked as his Vice President for a classic example of this. Obama surrounds himself with buffoons as a cover. He knows exactly what he is doing.

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I don't think so. The guy's not a genius. He didn't have any real experience doing anything before he took office. He was a junior Senator and former "community organizer". What about that says "mastermind" to you? He's no more an evil genius than Miley Cyrus and Brittany Spears were musical geniuses. He's just the next guy cranked out by the machine and he surrounds himself with buffoons because he's repaying political favors to people a lot less accomplished than the people Bush owed his favors to.