Poll: Obama worst president since WWII

L.T. Fan

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LT how much experience do you have dealing with people out of your social and cultural circles because you sound like a guy that's making judgements based mostly on your life experiences.
I have been in the public business forum a great deal of my life. I am currently retired but my knowledge didn't retire.
 

UncleMilti

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We mostly agree in practice. I just tend to think characterizing people as shitbags or whatever isn't productive. Not particularly "directed" at anyone, even if I did use examples from things you said.

FWIW, I think the welfare queen and all that are less common than certain demagogue politicians perpetuate to keep themselves elected.
Agreed. Probably not the best way to put it...I just have a very low tolerance for all this. The welfare system is broken beyond repair.
 

Kbrown

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I should clarify that I don't think Christianity is socialist or in any way implies a need for government control. In fact, I think part of the way we have failed is by stripping charitable responsibilities from the Church and tying its hands with red tape.

I just don't see a lot of compassion in the neo-conservative worldview. Jesus and Ayn Rand are incompatible.
 

2233boys

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[MENTION=30]2233boys[/MENTION] do you give to the poor out of your own pocket? Do you contribute to charities that provide medical services to the poor? How much? Are you just throwing around scriptures accusing folks around you without holding yourself to the same standard?
I didn't accuse anyone of anything. It was stated by LT and others in this thread. When kbrown posted that it wasn't a Christian stance I cited those verses. I do regularly give to people less fortunate, through missions at church above tithing, in my community, my family and at my job, out of my own pocket. I also have donated a lot of money recently to the Ronald McDonald House. I get what your trying to do. You want to make me sound like a hypocrite. I don't think it applies but The Lord will be the judge of that.

The truth is, the bible states that you should give to ANYONE in need. Do you do that? Are you willing to downgrade your lifestyle, move into a smaller house, drive really old cars, shop at the thrift store and live semi-poor in order to bring someone else to your level? If not you might wanta simmer down there, hot rod.
I have helped people in need. At work out of my own pocket, in my community, and family. A family in my area didn't have money for their kids for Christmas. They had three small children. My wife and I bought all of them Christmas presents. I've paid the down payment for my sister in laws mortgage, never expected or received reimbursement. Those are just a few things. I am curious do you? Don't answer because I don't believe it's any of my business.

I don't believe I accused anyone of anything or tried to make myself out to be the better person. I just stated begrudging others of assistance while accepting it yourself was hypocritical. If that's wrong then I'm wrong.
 
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Jiggyfly

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I have no problem coming across that way- if in fact it was directed at me.

I get it both ways- as a Small Business owner paying jacked up taxes and a tax payer that has worked every day of my life since I was 17. So yeah, I do have a me against them mentality for the most part.

It simply sends me in orbit to see seemingly healthy people, illegal immigrants, and 15 year old mothers with 5 kids stand in line for their weekly handouts. Its bullshit.

Now- I have no problem with LEGITIMATE people in need....there will always be people that need assistance. And that's what welfare and handouts were originally for. Sadly, the actual people who truly need the help are a MINORITY when it comes to gov't help.

But this fucking disaster this country has going on now with perfectly capable working people and illegals sitting idley by waiting on their handouts to arrive???

Shit.

And if you are going to throw Christianity into the mix...how about applying it to the lying shitbags who bilk the taxpayers so they can live off others for free. I think its un-christianlike to lie, isn't it?
What percentage of the population do you think is bilking the system and does this mean you think that is what Obama elected?

I understand you frustration but if you think its "Those People" who got Obama elected your way off.
 

skidadl

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I should clarify that I don't think Christianity is socialist or in any way implies a need for government control. In fact, I think part of the way we have failed is by stripping charitable responsibilities from the Church and tying its hands with red tape.

I just don't see a lot of compassion in the neo-conservative worldview. Jesus and Ayn Rand are incompatible.
Word.
 

2233boys

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You are telling me about how tough life is? I have already lived it and it's likely I could give you a few tips. No need to tell me about everyone not having the same advantages. I have already stated that. Everyone does have the same opportunity to make more of themselves however.
You probably could give me some pointers, but I have done just fine. I don't agree that everyone has the same opportunities and you can't honestly believe it either. Look at your own life? Did you have the same opportunities as your children? The answer most likely is no.
 
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Jiggyfly

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I have been in the public business forum a great deal of my life. I am currently retired but my knowledge didn't retire.
Public business forum?

I'm talking socially or an exstended amount of time and might I ask who were you dealing with in this forum.
 

Cotton

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We mostly agree in practice. I just tend to think characterizing people as shitbags or whatever isn't productive. Not particularly "directed" at anyone, even if I did use examples from things you said.

FWIW, I think the welfare queen and all that are less common than certain demagogue politicians perpetuate to keep themselves elected.
The problem is, our gov't has enabled "shitbags" to be the lazy leeches that they are. I'm not remotely saying that the majority of people on welfare are "shitbags" but we have a ton that are. And, we have let it happen as a country.
 

2233boys

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2233, when was the last time you took someone poor or needy into your home?
To be honest it has been awhile. The only exception would be for family down on their luck and that has been a number of years as well.
 

Cotton

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Agreed. Probably not the best way to put it...I just have a very low tolerance for all this. The welfare system is broken beyond repair.
It's not beyond repair. We just don't have a society in place now that will allow it to be fixed.
 

2233boys

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I should clarify that I don't think Christianity is socialist or in any way implies a need for government control. In fact, I think part of the way we have failed is by stripping charitable responsibilities from the Church and tying its hands with red tape.

I just don't see a lot of compassion in the neo-conservative worldview. Jesus and Ayn Rand are incompatible.
No one else said it either.
 

Cotton

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What percentage of the population do you think is bilking the system and does this mean you think that is what Obama elected?

I understand you frustration but if you think its "Those People" who got Obama elected your way off.
You're right, it wasn't all them that got him elected, but they were a portion of it that may not have voted otherwise.
 

skidadl

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To be honest it has been awhile. The only exception would be for family down on their luck and that has been a number of years as well.
The thing is, we are talking about the government, ObamaCare and the state of healthcare. You throw out scripture that doesn't apply to this situation. To me that IS misusing scripture.

Your response gives the impression that you think that it does apply. Can you please clarify about this? Do you think that ObamaCare is throwing a few bones in the general direction of the scriptures in Matthew that you quoted? Are you attempting to link the two? If so, you could also be implying that those who voted for him were obeying the bible. That is the same BS that the right has attempted to do and fail at for many years.
 

L.T. Fan

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Public business forum?

I'm talking socially or an exstended amount of time and might I ask who were you dealing with in this forum.
As I stated a great deal of the time was with the public. I was a commercial banker for several years of my working career. My second career was as a Federal Section Chief of an investigations unit. Where are you trying to go with your interest maybe we can save some time?. I am not a narrow person with limited human exposure.
 

2233boys

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The thing is, we are talking about the government, ObamaCare and the state of healthcare. You throw out scripture that doesn't apply to this situation. To me that IS misusing scripture.
that wasn't the context in which it was posted.
Your response gives the impression that you think that it does apply. Can you please clarify about this? Do you think that ObamaCare is throwing a few bones in the general direction of the scriptures in Matthew that you quoted? Are you attempting to link the two? If so, you could also be implying that those who voted for him were obeying the bible. That is the same BS that the right has attempted to do and fail at for many years.
I already explained this above perhaps not adequately. No I'm not saying people who voted for Obama are obeying the Bible nor was I linking it to healthcare.

Also, framing everything as "us workin' folk" versus the "shitstain deadbeats" makes supposedly conservative people sound like assholes. It also comes off as pretty un-Christian (not that all conservatives are or claim to be Christians). Just saying.
I bolded the last sentence in my orignal quote. It was posted directly to that comment. I believe it applies. I never once indicated that it was the governments job, or related my comments to healthcare. The last verse in the scripture I referenced says , "Whatever you do for the least of these brothers and sisters of mine you do for me". It was individuals being scolded in my opinion by Kbrown and individuals who are Christians those scriptures were meant to challenge. If that makes any sense.
 
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Jiggyfly

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As I stated a great deal of the time was with the public. I was a commercial banker for several years of my working career. My second career was as a Federal Section Chief of an investigations unit. Where are you trying to go with your interest maybe we can save some time?. I am not a narrow person with limited human exposure.
Seems to me you do have limited exposure. does not seem you have worked with a diverse cross section of the public.

Where I am going is that you seem to be projecting your life experiences on people you have not spent a lot of time around or with and let's be real you don't really get to know people at work.
 

2233boys

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Last thing, I know there are some horrible people on public assistance. I worked in a public housing sector/non profit community assistance program in the early 90's. There were some People that couldn't stay off drugs, never looked for a job and/or couldn't hold one down. I worked with the kids of those people and I'll relate a little story that may help some of you understand where I'm coming from better.

I have seen executives in those areas (school administration, housing authority manager, HUD, social services) say they wouldn't help the kids in those families because their parents were deadbeats. I stood up for those children. Every time I see the words used here like they can fend for themselves, take advantage of their opportunities, dirtbags etc I think that same way. You may not agree with the choices the adults have made and you likely have every right not too, but there are children in those circumstances that have no choice.
 

L.T. Fan

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Seems to me you do have limited exposure. does not seem you have worked with a diverse cross section of the public.

Where I am going is that you seem to be projecting your life experiences on people you have not spent a lot of time around or with and let's be real you don't really get to know people at work.
Obviously you don't know much about what a Commerical Banker does. It is constant interaction with the public and business sector. Again if you have some sort of question or assessment just spit it out.
 
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