PFT: Jones’ history makes a trade up or down in round one likely

boozeman said:

Given how Jones has publicly advertised his man love for him? There would be rape.

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I wouldn't do an RGIII deal for him. I wouldn't give up a future first for anyone.

mschmidt64 said:

He says that until the next coach he brings in wants to change it.

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I think if Marinelli has even a remotely serviceable defense, he gets rewarded with a lifetime contract and gets foisted on the next coach. It is how he works.

Clay_Allison said:

I wouldn't do an RGIII deal for him. I wouldn't give up a future first for anyone.

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Correction, anyone in this draft.

boozeman said:

Given how Jones has publicly advertised his man love for him? There would be rape.

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Exactly. No way would I want to trade up that far, if at all. I might... might go up 2-3 spots for him, but even that might be too much. We have too many holes to fill to waste picks on a risky player.

boozeman said:

I think if Marinelli has even a remotely serviceable defense, he gets rewarded with a lifetime contract and gets foisted on the next coach. It is how he works.

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How is he going to do that with Mincey and Selvie starting at DE?

Clay_Allison said:

How is he going to do that with Mincey and Selvie starting at DE?

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We absolutely have to a find a pass rusher in this draft. Mincey and Selvie can hold up just fine against the run but we will have serious issues rushing the passer if those are the options on passing downs. Of course if we do somehow manage a respectable defense with those two at end, it would probably give Schmitty a coronary and his head would explode.

mschmidt64 said:

I'd be excited about landing Barr. He can do a lot of things; if Marinelli can't get it out of him the next coach will get a chance.

We don't have a coaching staff in place that I am comfortable saying "We can only draft guys who fit their vision" because they aren't likely to be here long term.

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In this defense Barr would either be strictly a LBer or strictly a DE. The only way I can see value in the pick is if he was strictly a DE (Obviously ideally we would use him as a DE/OLBer hybrid in this defense but we know our defensive coordinator isn't capable of that type of creativity). Which I don't necessarily think is that far of a stretch but it certainly makes me nervous having that extreme of a transition with a middle first round pick. If the guy never proves he is capable of setting an edge then you just used a first round pick on a role player.

Cowboysrock55 said:

We absolutely have to a find a pass rusher in this draft. Mincey and Selvie can hold up just fine against the run but we will have serious issues rushing the passer if those are the options on passing downs. Of course if we do somehow manage a respectable defense with those two at end, it would probably give Schmitty a coronary and his head would explode.

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That's what kind of sucks about this draft. A true legit end is going to be hard to find unless you force a project (Barr etc.) or just completely reach for an overrated player (Ealy).

If what has been suggested the last few days is true, good luck with finding a pass rusher unless you want to get them early. There is even suggestion teams will snag them all in the first 50 choices.

I was hoping teams went after the QBs and CBs like they usually do. That doesn't appear to be the case.

boozeman said:

That's what kind of sucks about this draft. A true legit end is going to be hard to find unless you force a project (Barr etc.) or just completely reach for an overrated player (Ealy).

If what has been suggested the last few days is true, good luck with finding a pass rusher unless you want to get them early. There is even suggestion teams will snag them all in the first 50 choices.

I was hoping teams went after the QBs and CBs like they usually do. That doesn't appear to be the case.

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Trading down seems more and more like the right idea. If we're going to be stuck with a guy who can't play 3 downs right away we might as well get Dee Ford late in the first. I know he's stupid but you don't have to have an IQ over 80 to be a pass rush specialist.

Clay_Allison said:

I admit I'd make that call, not because it's the right thing to do, just because I'd be tempted to see if the price isn't too high.

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If the price isn't too high, maybe it's the right thing to do.

Obviously if you don't like Manziel, then you wouldn't even take him at 16. I'm going with the scouts who say he's a franchise QB on this one.

boozeman said:

I think if Marinelli has even a remotely serviceable defense, he gets rewarded with a lifetime contract and gets foisted on the next coach. It is how he works.

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Ugh, true. Because we won't be hiring a head coach with the pull to clean house, unfortunately. Keeping the DC will be a condition of employment like it was with another head coach we once had.

Clay_Allison said:

Correction, anyone in this draft.

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This draft has some of the best top end talent you'll see in any draft.

If you aren't willing to give up a future first for these guys, as a blanket statement, then you are drawing the line at Andrew Luck or Matt Ryan level QBs.

Given Dallas' position I wouldn't give up a future first either, but if I was a team like the 49ers I sure as hell would.

Cowboysrock55 said:

We absolutely have to a find a pass rusher in this draft. Mincey and Selvie can hold up just fine against the run but we will have serious issues rushing the passer if those are the options on passing downs. Of course if we do somehow manage a respectable defense with those two at end, it would probably give Schmitty a coronary and his head would explode.

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Define respectable. You can have a respectable defense (ranked in the teens) with a weak link at one of your end spots like Selvie.

boozeman said:

That's what kind of sucks about this draft. A true legit end is going to be hard to find unless you force a project (Barr etc.) or just completely reach for an overrated player (Ealy).

If what has been suggested the last few days is true, good luck with finding a pass rusher unless you want to get them early. There is even suggestion teams will snag them all in the first 50 choices.

I was hoping teams went after the QBs and CBs like they usually do. That doesn't appear to be the case.

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Unless it's Clowney or Barr or someone unforseen who develops, you are likely not walking out of this draft with a Demarcus Ware/Aldon Smith pass rusher. There is just not that type of guy in the first couple rounds.

I don't get the ridiculous aversion that some have to drafting a Tony Tolbert #2 strong side end in the first round though. Those players are not all fourth round picks, they are very valuable and worthy of a first round pick if you find the right guy who can contribute to the pass rush and be a run stopping force.

Not every high pick spent on the DL has to be your edge rusher. That would be like saying "We can't draft a DT because he's not quick twitch." Uh... you need the other DT too. You need the one-tech. You need the strongside DE. I would love a guy like Crichton to come here and be Chris Canty. This DL needs that badly at end, in addition to the pass rusher.

If you are truly hell bent on getting your pass rusher early, trade down and target Demarcus Lawrence. He's got the best chance of being that edge rusher IMO.

Though in my book, I'm not passing on Taylor Lewan just because I need my pass rusher this draft. I'll take Lewan then Crichton a round later.

mschmidt64 said:

I don't get the ridiculous aversion that some have to drafting a Tony Tolbert #2 strong side end in the first round though. Those players are not all fourth round picks, they are very valuable and worthy of a first round pick if you find the right guy who can contribute to the pass rush and be a run stopping force.

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Because you can likely find a Tony Tolbert outside of the first round, while you can improve another area of your team with a better player at another position.

What you are basically doing is suggesting that we draft for need because we did a shitty job addressing the DE position in FA. You won't admit it, but you actually are.

boozeman said:

Because you can likely find a Tony Tolbert outside of the first round, while you can improve another area of your team with a better player at another position.

What you are basically doing is suggesting that we draft for need because we did a shitty job addressing the DE position in FA. You won't admit it, but you actually are.

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I don't see it that way, I think Kony Ealy is worthy of a first round pick the same way I thought Shariff Floyd would be a good pick in 2013 despite being a 1-tech instead of a 3-tech.

At some point even the non-stat compilers are worthy of a first round pick. Louis Nix will also be that way this year. I don't want him at 16 but in the 20s, I would. You can find NTs outside the first round but Nix is better than most and so he's worthy of a first round pick to be that blocker magnet NT.

Ealy hits that value somewhere in the first round. I like him better straight up than guys like Brandon Cooks, Morgan Moses or Ryan Shazier, who are the lower-ranked players at non-need positions.

mschmidt64 said:

I don't see it that way, I think Kony Ealy is worthy of a first round pick the same way I thought Shariff Floyd would be a good pick in 2013 despite being a 1-tech instead of a 3-tech.

At some point even the non-stat compilers are worthy of a first round pick. Louis Nix will also be that way this year. I don't want him at 16 but in the 20s, I would. You can find NTs outside the first round but Nix is better than most and so he's worthy of a first round pick to be that blocker magnet NT.

Ealy hits that value somewhere in the first round. I like him better straight up than guys like Brandon Cooks, Morgan Moses or Ryan Shazier, who are the lower-ranked players at non-need positions.

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Like I said, advocating need but not admitting it.

boozeman said:

Like I said, advocating need but not admitting it.

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I don't see it since I openly advocate a QB, an OT, or a WR over a DL if the right player was there at 16. I just legitimately think that the players slated in that 17-mid 20s range are worse than Ealy.

Out of curiosity, who is it you like there if Barr/Donald/Lewan are gone?

mschmidt64 said:

Define respectable. You can have a respectable defense (ranked in the teens) with a weak link at one of your end spots like Selvie.

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It was mentioned Selvie and Mincey...

I actually think you can have an elite defense with someone like Selvie at LE. But I can't see it with Selvie being your best pass rushing end.

Its laughable, but par for the course for Jerry Jones and company to believe that bringing in Melton and relying on Selvie to put pressure on the QB suddenly vaults this defense out of the cellar.

There aren't any impact pass rushers the Cowboys can get out of this draft that's going to replace Ware. Even if he only had 6 sacks.