The Religion Thread
- Thread starter boozeman
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Chocolate Lab
Mere Commoner
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What were you expecting?
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I dunno. A little more juice. This is like a shrug.
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We have all been around each other long enough we have just about talked everything to death.
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Welllll.....
This is a really long conversation for me. Almost every time I've attempted to dive into it, I find myself fighting perceptions and generalizations instead of discussing the real questions/answers. One thing that bothers me about this topic is that society doesn’t give room for nuance in the discussion. The conversation usually goes right to the built in biases, which is find frustrating.
This is a really long conversation for me. Almost every time I've attempted to dive into it, I find myself fighting perceptions and generalizations instead of discussing the real questions/answers. One thing that bothers me about this topic is that society doesn’t give room for nuance in the discussion. The conversation usually goes right to the built in biases, which is find frustrating.
NoDak
Hotlinking' sonofabitch
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But that was the point of this thread.
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Well, that's goddamn depressing.
Sheik
DCC 4Life
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We really should drop these 20+ year old screen names and just go by our real names now.
Cujo
DCC 4Life
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It depends on which room you get.
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I find it extremely compelling that Judeo and Christian teachings have made it through the test of time. There have been many waves of disbelief over the centuries only to have the fundamental beliefs laugh and move on.
From a foundational perspective the bible lines up with history, has verifiable fulfilled prophesies from early times and then experiential evidence in my personal life.
From a cultural perspective Christianity is extremely important to everything that we have around us currently. That is all pretty much under the threat of disappearing at the moment. Once that completely erodes there will be a lot of really sad people. Information is already completely thrown into chaos right now. If the house of cards comes down it will be something like underground believers that would propel society back to health in a few centuries. This history has repeated itself how many times already? Erbody gets humbled and comes back to God in waves over time. Then we will get fat, carnal and lazy again and lose it all while asking questions like - "is there even a real god?"
Currently, the American church is a mess. The most destructive thing going now is the prosperity gospel, which is a total lie. The basis of it is the idea that if you come to Christ you will be guaranteed health and wealth. That is the exact opposite of biblical teachings. The truth is that we are all guaranteed to suffer, experience lose, sickness, tragedy and so forth. The idea is that God is enough to sustain through it all.
From a personal perspective - it is about redemption. Can you save yourself? Sin and repentance is an extremely unpopular subject with today's mindset. If you want to get a vile reaction simply mention sin and repentance. Me personally, I need a savior. My life is vastly better, more peaceful and meaningful with my relationship with Christ. I have a LOT of problems on a human level to navigate. In the basic tenants of Christianity I am all in:
Fallen man/total depravity - check
Christ as the messiah - check
prophesied about the king to come in ancient time - check
prophesy fulfilled - check
born of a virgin - check
His life given for ours - check
If you aren't compelled by God, drawn to Him and so forth then you must not need a savior.
On the topic of sin, I heard a really interesting thing recently. It was asking why Tim Tebow was so hated vs. why a guy like Steph Curry seems to not have any issues. Both are publicly professed believers. Steph Curry talks about how Christ can make your life better, make you happier and help you be more successful. Tim Tebow talks about sin and repentance. People HATE that.
From a foundational perspective the bible lines up with history, has verifiable fulfilled prophesies from early times and then experiential evidence in my personal life.
From a cultural perspective Christianity is extremely important to everything that we have around us currently. That is all pretty much under the threat of disappearing at the moment. Once that completely erodes there will be a lot of really sad people. Information is already completely thrown into chaos right now. If the house of cards comes down it will be something like underground believers that would propel society back to health in a few centuries. This history has repeated itself how many times already? Erbody gets humbled and comes back to God in waves over time. Then we will get fat, carnal and lazy again and lose it all while asking questions like - "is there even a real god?"
Currently, the American church is a mess. The most destructive thing going now is the prosperity gospel, which is a total lie. The basis of it is the idea that if you come to Christ you will be guaranteed health and wealth. That is the exact opposite of biblical teachings. The truth is that we are all guaranteed to suffer, experience lose, sickness, tragedy and so forth. The idea is that God is enough to sustain through it all.
From a personal perspective - it is about redemption. Can you save yourself? Sin and repentance is an extremely unpopular subject with today's mindset. If you want to get a vile reaction simply mention sin and repentance. Me personally, I need a savior. My life is vastly better, more peaceful and meaningful with my relationship with Christ. I have a LOT of problems on a human level to navigate. In the basic tenants of Christianity I am all in:
Fallen man/total depravity - check
Christ as the messiah - check
prophesied about the king to come in ancient time - check
prophesy fulfilled - check
born of a virgin - check
His life given for ours - check
If you aren't compelled by God, drawn to Him and so forth then you must not need a savior.
On the topic of sin, I heard a really interesting thing recently. It was asking why Tim Tebow was so hated vs. why a guy like Steph Curry seems to not have any issues. Both are publicly professed believers. Steph Curry talks about how Christ can make your life better, make you happier and help you be more successful. Tim Tebow talks about sin and repentance. People HATE that.
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I actually became a Christian in a weird way. When I was 19 years old I had a Jehovah Witness come to my door to sell me his goods. At the time I was living with my girlfriend, which is my wife now and she was pregnant. Anyhoo, I invited him in and we debated for a few hours. He came back on a regular basis so I felt I needed some ammo. To get more ammunition I decided to read the bible. I read the entire new testament in a short period of time. When I really dug into it I started to see that this Jesus dude was nothing like what I thought. To be honest, it was completely transformative.
We live in a really weird time when it comes to knowledge and truth. Any debates that I expect to be forthcoming here will be about commentary about the bible instead of someone who read it themselves. Of all of the time we waste doing stupid stuff what would be the harm in finding out for yourself? Read the book of John. Or the entire new testament. Your entire body will not explode or turn to ash.
We live in a really weird time when it comes to knowledge and truth. Any debates that I expect to be forthcoming here will be about commentary about the bible instead of someone who read it themselves. Of all of the time we waste doing stupid stuff what would be the harm in finding out for yourself? Read the book of John. Or the entire new testament. Your entire body will not explode or turn to ash.
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I have read the bible many times. Let's do this.
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Half of that stuff isn't verifiable in fact. Come at me with facts, not faith.
NoDak
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Why?
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So you want me to argue with you about half of that stuff? Sounds exhausting.
Work it on a decision chart:
1. Are you a fallen man?
yes? Proceed
no? I wish you well on your journey. You do not need to proceed to 2
2. can you save yourself?
yes? I wish you well on your journey. You do not need to proceed to 3
no? Proceed to 3
3. Is Jesus the messiah or was he a lunatic?
Lunatic? I wish you well in your journey. You do not need to proceed to 4
Messiah? Proceed to 4
4. Do you accept the gospel of salvation as truth?
no? I wish you well on your journey. You do not need to proceed
yes? You’re now a believer
Argue about all the rest until you pass out. It’ll change nothing. Accept or reject. That’s pretty much the gist of it. If you’re good without it then carry on. That’s the way this deal works.
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Part of the reason is I was made to as a kid. But, when I really read the bible was after I had left my dad's house and wanted to make sure I had read it with the proper lens so I read it again multiple times.
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Yeah, but arguing with, "It's either your kinda thing or it isn't", is not really discussing the issues.
Also, what does a fallen man mean? I need that info before I know if I need to move to step 2.
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But you already know this stuff. So what/why are you asking? Is it because you aren’t really asking perhaps?
That’s like asking how to get stronger. You lift heavy things. What you’re saying is that you want to debate about if that’s really true. Or how do I get more money in my banking account? You make deposits. Do we need to debate that?
You don’t know the concept of depravity? I think you do.