2021 Season | Week 11 | Gameday Chatter Thread | Cowboys @ Chiefs | 11/21/21

[p1_]

With a completely zoomed out macro view, sure, but the only real decision point is keeping McCarthy or not because replacing Dak isn't a realistic option.

we are completely at the mercy of Dak Prescott.

 

[Smitty]

With a completely zoomed out macro view, sure, but the only real decision point is keeping McCarthy or not because replacing Dak isn't a realistic option.

Besides that the only real path is to keep upgrading the roster to hopefully push past that point.

Well I think the macro view is kinda the view that began this discussion, which was whether the team has progressed since '16 or '18.

It doesn't appear so.

That's not the only option to change the roster though - maybe Elliott needs to go. Maybe time to overhaul the OL again. Maybe time to cut bait on Lawrence. Etc.

Or you can say "No, keeping these guys is our best chance," and that may be true, but they aren't progressing. They are stuck as a second round playoff exit core.

Maybe they can still elevate their games, but after so many chances that begins to look less and less likely. This isn't a young group anymore that is going to get better. This is their best chance right now. If 26-28 year old Elliott-Cooper-Prescott aren't getting it done now it might be time to contemplate changing things because it's gonna soon show signs of decline.

And again - not saying dump Prescott. We all know QBs can play at high levels till 38, so I'm not saying he's about to break down, but him captaining THIS CORE, might be time to waive the white flag soon. He is young enough to survive a rebuild.

 

[Smitty]

You're still wrong.

Nuh uh.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The last time this team got to the second round was 2018. That's a decent time ago in NFL years. Sturm had an article last month about how over half the team was different just from when Garrett was here just two years ago, so the team is not the same. And even some of that "core" like Tyron and Zeke may have the same names, but they aren't the same players they were then because of age and wear.

The point I might agree with Smitty on this is on Dak. We might find that he never takes that next step to the elite, but then I don't expect that to happen anyway because I've never been as high on him as some. Don't get me wrong, he's very good and we're lucky to have him, but I just don't see that very top tier QB. That's not the end of the world, but it does mean a lot around him has to go right to get to or win a SB.

 

[Simpleton]

Well I think the macro view is kinda the view that began this discussion, which was whether the team has progressed since '16 or '18.

It doesn't appear so.

That's not the only option to change the roster though - maybe Elliott needs to go. Maybe time to overhaul the OL again. Maybe time to cut bait on Lawrence. Etc.

Or you can say "No, keeping these guys is our best chance," and that may be true, but they aren't progressing. They are stuck as a second round playoff exit core.

Maybe they can still elevate their games, but after so many chances that begins to look less and less likely. This isn't a young group anymore that is going to get better. This is their best chance right now.

I don't think either of those really moves the needle though unless we backfill them with top-level replacements, which would kind of make the discussion moot to begin with.

No matter what happens this year I'd be planning for their exit right now, certainly in Elliott's case, with Lawrence it's a little more up in the air depending on how he looks when he comes back.

 

[UncleMilti]

hopefully, this talk about Moore leaving will die down now.

Fat Andy ate his lunch and then ate Meatballs dinner along with it.

 

[Genghis Khan]

I don't think either of those really moves the needle though unless we backfill them with top-level replacements, which would kind of make the discussion moot to begin with.

No matter what happens this year I'd be planning for their exit right now, certainly in Elliott's case, with Lawrence it's a little more up in the air depending on how he looks when he comes back.

I'd move on from Lawrence before Elliott.

 

[Simpleton]

The last time this team got to the second round was 2018. That's a decent time ago in NFL years. Sturm had an article last month about how over half the team was different just from when Garrett was here just two years ago, the team is not the same. And even some of that "core" like Tyron and Zeke may have the same names, but they aren't the same players they were then because of age and wear.

The point I might agree with Smitty on this is on Dak. We might find that he never takes that next step to the elite, but then I don't expect that to happen anyway because I've never been as high on him as some. Don't get me wrong, he's very good and we're lucky to have him, but I just don't see that very top tier QB. That's not the end of the world, but it does mean a lot around him has to go right to get to or win a SB.

I think that top tier that you're talking about is basically all-timer/possible GOAT consideration (Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers basically), but it's unreasonable for people to complain about him not reaching that standard in the first place.

If he's somewhere between the 3rd and 8th best QB in the league for the next 10 years I'm more than happy paying him and having him be the unquestioned QB. I just hope that at some point this guy decides that $300 million or whatever in career earnings is more than enough and he can take 20% less than top of the market to try to win a Super Bowl.

 

[Smitty]

And even some of that "core" like Tyron and Zeke may have the same names, but they aren't the same players they were then because of age and wear.

Well I think that's kinda my point. They aren't getting better. Yet we keep running out the same names we have since '16 and '18 in lead positions.

Of course half the team is different since '18. Every team is like that. This isn't a conversation about whether the team has changed over faster than others or not.

The entire discussion is about progression of the team SINCE 2018, which of course means we have to be discussing the pieces that are still here since 2018. Why would I talk about whether Keanu Neal or Micah Parsons has progressed since then? They weren't here.

The point I might agree with Smitty on this is on Dak. We might find that he never takes that next step to the elite

Right, and setting aside the merit of any debate on whether Dak takes that next step - let's extend that discussion to not just Dak, but Elliott, D-Law, Martin, Smith, Collins, Gregory, Anthony Brown, etc, the guys who have been here.

Stop and think about it - our main pieces on offense have almost ALL been here since 2018; Lamb is like the only newcomer to that group, really. And most of those who have been here since 2018, have also been here since 2016.

At some point running it all back doesn't make sense anymore for these guys. They AREN'T progressing.

If we don't go further with this group, this year, it may be time to consider some wholesale changes. The group ain't progressing. Even giving them an elite head coach in McCarthy, this is just all that some of them are.

 

[p1_]

Notice how the defense handles the loss of starters better than the offense does. The defense has played without starters all season and has played well aside from the Denver game.

 

[Simpleton]

I'd move on from Lawrence before Elliott.

Hard to say, he's probably overpaid but if we could extend him really cheap and effectively have him for like 15/year then he could be a bargain as a borderline Pro Bowler given that there is way more longevity at his position.

Elliott is going to be done in like 18 months.

 

[Smitty]

Notice how the defense handles the loss of starters better than the offense does. The defense has played without starters all season and has played well aside from the Denver game.

Not as much of a drop off when someone goes out on defense.

 

[Texas Ace]

What a huge miss that was.

Yup.

It's the kind of play and start that gets the jitters out of the way.

Aikman has always said that he didn't settle down in SB27 till he made that beauty of a pass to Novacek in the post for the first score of the game.

If Dak hits that throw there, I think it's a totally different performance from him than the one we got.

He just never ever seemed to settle down.

 

[deadrise]

Steele looked pretty unsettled yesterday I thought.

Steele is definitely not the answer at LT.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Notice how the defense handles the loss of starters better than the offense does. The defense has played without starters all season and has played well aside from the Denver game.

I think that's a little bit of an unfair comparison. The offense handled missing Dak pretty well this season. They also handled the loss of Gallup quite well. Even overcame missing Tyron at times (though not against Denver or KC which tells me there's more to it).

 

[Genghis Khan]

Hard to say, he's probably overpaid but if we could extend him really cheap and effectively have him for like 15/year then he could be a bargain as a borderline Pro Bowler given that there is way more longevity at his position.

Elliott is going to be done in like 18 months.

I don't know about Elliott being done anytime soon. We'll see. And RB is certainly easier to replace, I do understand that.

But Lawrence already looks like he has taken a significant step back, and has since like 2 years ago. And we already have been just fine without him pretty much all year.

 

[Texas Ace]

I think that's a little bit of an unfair comparison. The offense handled missing Dak pretty well this season. They also handled the loss of Gallup quite well. Even overcame missing Tyron at times (though not against Denver or KC which tells me there's more to it).

Yeah, I don't agree with that either.

We won 6 of our first 7 games despite missing multiple offensive starters including our QB.

There's plenty of reason to have concern after yesterday and plenty of good reasons to question how good this team really is, but let's not start getting blinded by these results either.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Right, and setting aside the merit of any debate on whether Dak takes that next step - let's extend that discussion to not just Dak, but Elliott, D-Law, Martin, Smith, Collins, Gregory, Anthony Brown, etc, the guys who have been here.

Stop and think about it - our main pieces on offense have almost ALL been here since 2018; Lamb is like the only newcomer to that group, really. And most of those who have been here since 2018, have also been here since 2016.

At some point running it all back doesn't make sense anymore for these guys. They AREN'T progressing.

If we don't go further with this group, this year, it may be time to consider some wholesale changes. The group ain't progressing. Even giving them an elite head coach in McCarthy, this is just all that some of them are.

Still not sure what you're getting at. Surely you aren't saying you move on from some of the best players on your team, the Daks and Coopers and Gallups and Martins, because the team hasn't gone farther in the playoffs?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think that's a little bit of an unfair comparison. The offense handled missing Dak pretty well this season. They also handled the loss of Gallup quite well.

And Collins, and Martin that first game

 

[Simpleton]

It's important to remind ourselves that our only losses this year are to last year's two Super Bowl teams (on the road), by relatively thin margins, along with the complete write-off Broncos game.

The only somewhat concerning thing is that the Broncos/Chiefs game came 2 weeks apart, so it's reasonable to start worrying that it's a pattern, but overall I think people just need to chill.