2021 Random Cowboys Stuff Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
I choose the guy with more yards. 80 x 12 = 960. 30 x 19 = 570.

Do you see how the yards matter but the catches don't. Anyway, give me a team of guys who produce the yards at receiver and I'll give you the turds catching 80 balls for 500 yards.
My god. I could come up with other examples, but I'm way too lazy for that.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,486
Because you don't have to throw it to him as much. That's what you all don't seem to be getting. Assume every pass goes to player A and player B. Player B will have more catches because it's taking more passes to move the ball. Player A scored 4 plays ago and didn't need 4 more catches to move the length of the field. It's because the catches are meaningless. It's the yards that move the ball.

That's a specious argument.

Even on one drive that starts on average at the 20, you need four 20 yard catches for a TD.

If he's a low reception guy, he's averaging less than 4 catches per game, let alone per drive.

Why isn't he catching the ball more?
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,465
That's a specious argument.

Even on one drive that starts on average at the 20, you need four 20 yard catches for a TD.

If he's a low reception guy, he's averaging less than 4 catches per game, let alone per drive.

Why isn't he catching the ball more?
Targets which now you're talking about is not a meaningless stat.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,486
Dude, if the receiver with 60 catches with 20 yards per actually got 100 catches with 20 yards per you would easily be right, but that's not the scenario.

Alvin Harper - avg 30 catches per season with almost 19 yards per reception

Jerry Rice - avg 80 receptions per season with about 12 yards per reception

Which receiver do you choose?

This should end the discussion. It's exactly what we are saying, played out in the real world.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,486
Targets which now you're talking about is not a meaningless stat.

But if you get more targets and less receptions, what does that say about how good you are?

So again, receptions reflect how much you are actually catching the ball. It matters.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,465
But if you get more targets and less receptions, what does that say about how good you are?

So again, receptions reflect how much you are actually catching the ball. It matters.
And if you get the same amount of targets and more yards what does that say about carches?
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
But if you get more targets and less receptions, what does that say about how good you are?

So again, receptions reflect how much you are actually catching the ball. It matters.
I still can't get Harper out of my mind. He would make huge gains ala Tyreek Hill and then drop the easiest of catches. Drove me nuts. I'll take the consistent guy, thank you.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
And if you get the same amount of targets and more yards what does that say about carches?
Nobody has said anything about targets. Don't move the goalposts.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,486
Because you don't have to throw it to him as much. That's what you all don't seem to be getting. Assume every pass goes to player A and player B. Player B will have more catches because it's taking more passes to move the ball. Player A scored 4 plays ago and didn't need 4 more catches to move the length of the field. It's because the catches are meaningless. It's the yards that move the ball.

You're backwards. You're starting with the end.

If you start with the premise that every drive ends in a touchdown, then player B has more receptions as a result of gaining less yards. You are also assuming each WR is catching the ball and open on an equal basis. That's a hell of a lot of assumptions.

But that's not the real world.

How many drives end in touchdowns each game on average? 3? 4? Your premise doesn't work in the real world.

Receptions don't reflect the end result of your premise (TD drives), they reflect the reality that:

Zero players are open on every play, and zero receivers catch every ball.

In the real world, receptions reflect how well a receiver is doing on a play to play basis.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
So, let's do targets...

Alvin Harper - about 60 targets a season

Jerry Rice - about 125 targets a season

There is a reason the coaches decided to go with the JAG that could only get 12 yards per catch.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,486
I choose the guy with more yards. 80 x 12 = 960. 30 x 19 = 570.

Do you see how the yards matter but the catches don't. Anyway, give me a team of guys who produce the yards at receiver and I'll give you the turds catching 80 balls for 500 yards.

This is a straw man.

No one that I'm aware of is arguing that you want 6.5 YPC as you are implying here.

Just like you aren't arguing in favor of a guy with 10 catches for 1000 yards.

If you think we're arguing in favor of 80 catches, 500 yards (6.5 YPC) then you're missing the point even worse than I thought.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,732
Now, there is a place in an offense for a receiver that gets 20 YPC, and that position is WR2.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom