Archer: Why Smith's penalty didn't have to happen

[Cotton]

Why Smith's penalty didn't have to happen
October, 28, 2013

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com

IRVING, Texas -- Lost somewhat amid the hubbub surrounding Dez Bryant's sideline actions and Calvin Johnson's on-field actions in Sunday's loss to the Detroit Lions was the holding penalty by Tyron Smith in the fourth quarter.

Smith was correctly assessed the penalty on Phillip Tanner's run, but according to coach Jason Garrett, Tanner never should have bounced the run to the left. The result put Smith in a bad leverage position, which created the penalty.

After taking over on downs from the Lions with 1:24 to play, the Cowboys ran the ball three straight times to get the Lions to use their final timeouts. Smith's penalty, however, stopped the clock with 1:07 to play.

“I don't want to be critical of a player right here, but the design of the play was to stick it up in there and get what you can get,” Garrett said. “We're on the 35-yard line and you just want to go north and south and handle the situation that way.”

Detroit loaded the line of scrimmage knowing the Cowboys were going to run. Tanner used his instincts to bounce the run and picked up 9 yards. The Lions declined the penalty because time was more important than yards in that scenario.

In the Oct. 6 loss to the Denver Broncos, quarterback Peyton Manning told Knowshon Moreno not to score a touchdown before a third-and-1 run from the Cowboys 2. Moreno picked up the first down and the Broncos were able to kick the game-winning field goal on the final play.

The Cowboys did not instruct Tanner to just barrel his way into the line.

“Certainly you can try to go man for man and tell him exactly what you want him to do but when we design that play from that personnel group that's where that play hits and typically that's where it goes,” Garrett said. “That's why we call it and he instinctively saw some daylight and green grass and bounced the thing all the way back and I think that contributed to the holding penalty.”

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Yeah, it was the RBs fault for trying to bounce out and get more yards and possibly run more time off the clock. That makes a ton of sense.

 

[Carp]

It was his fault to an extent...the yards were not important at all...keeping the clock running is the important thing. You bounce it outside and a defensive player has a chance to get you out of bounds as well.

 

[vince]

Yeah, it was the RBs fault for trying to bounce out and get more yards and possibly run more time off the clock. That makes a ton of sense.

Exactly what I was thinking while reading this.

 

[bbgun]

I doubt he would have been dumb enough to go out of bounds if he was short of the first, but you never know.

 

[boozeman]

So, Garrett just rolled one of our more notoriously dumber players in Tanner under the bus.

Works for me.

 

[Bluestar71]

I doubt he would have been dumb enough to go out of bounds if he was short of the first, but you never know.

Never underestimate anyone on the Cowboys' propensity to do the dumbest thing possible at the worst possible time.

 

[Cotton]

It was his fault to an extent...the yards were not important at all...keeping the clock running is the important thing. You bounce it outside and a defensive player has a chance to get you out of bounds as well.

So, it was his fault that Tyron held?

GTFO.

 

[Carp]

So, it was his fault that Tyron held?

GTFO.

That is not what I said, but if Tanner had just taken it in the middle like the play was designed, then that definitely lessens a chance for a hold. He held after Tanner broke outside, so it definitely was a factor.

 

[Cotton]

That is not what I said, but if Tanner had just taken it in the middle like the play was designed, then that definitely lessens a chance for a hold. He held after Tanner broke outside, so it definitely was a factor.

That is silly to even remotely try to blame a RB for a hold.

 

[Simpleton]

There was no point to running a play, we were not going to convert the third down, attempting a FG with 30 or so seconds would have been dumb and literally only bad things could happen. What is the point, to run an extra 5 seconds off the clock?

If it was 3rd and 4 or something, sure, run it and try to end it, but there was not one benefit of running the ball on that play besides running an extra 5 seconds off the clock, which is not worth any number of bad things that could happen, no matter how improbable it is.

The only problem is our head coach is too much of a novice fucking invalid to have this thought process during a game because he has a stick 8 feet up his ginger ass.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Right. So the plan was to run right into the line and knowingly have no chance at gaining yardage but run the risk of the RB bouncing it outside and either getting pushed out or a lineman holding or worse yet a fumble. The whole plan was to make no attempt at yardage and just run 30 plus seconds off. And it didn't occur to this fuckwit to kneel on the ball?

 

[Genghis Khan]

So anytime during a game it creates bad leverage for offensive linemen if a RB bounces a run outside? It's not like this is some rare or inexcusable thing. Not really passing the smell test.

 

[lostxn]

There was no point to running a play, we were not going to convert the third down, attempting a FG with 30 or so seconds would have been dumb and literally only bad things could happen. What is the point, to run an extra 5 seconds off the clock?

If it was 3rd and 4 or something, sure, run it and try to end it, but there was not one benefit of running the ball on that play besides running an extra 5 seconds off the clock, which is not worth any number of bad things that could happen, no matter how improbable it is.

The only problem is our head coach is too much of a novice fucking invalid to have this thought process during a game because he has a stick 8 feet up his ginger ass.

So this is completely wrong and you should know it. You run it to run ~40 seconds off the clock. If you pass it you and get an incomplete pass (which was likely given Romo's general play on the day), the clock stops. Now you could kneel it but given where you were you were trying to put yourself in position for a FG. Where they were, I'm not sure you would want to kick a FG as a miss would give Detroit such an easy time to move into FG position to tie. The run netted 9 yards which made for a high percentage FG and Bailey converted it so it was the right decision clearly.

I don't think you can blame Garrett (or the RB for that matter) for the holding penalty. You can't coach that way. The fault was 100% Tyron Smith's. Well, maybe 95%, 5% Tanner. There you go.

The other issue is your defense shouldn't be given up a drive like that. That was the worst defensive performance in the history of the franchise. Kiffin's defense is an utter failure. Yes it's hard to judge when you have the kind of injuries we've had but in the history of the NFL I'm sure other teams have had a rash of injuries like this and managed to play better than this.

 

[Simpleton]

There was no point to a FG in that situation, if anything it was an undue risk, even at under 50 yards because a miss would have given the Lions the ball with a minute left and only about 25-30 yards to go for a field goal attempt of their own.

The right call in that situation is take a knee, then a delay of game, punt from the 40 or so yard line and hope to pin them inside the 20 with around 25 seconds to play.

 

[Cotton]

Just admit it, man. It was more than a tug, you had your arm wrapped around his neck and shoulders. I knew it as soon as the play happened it was so obvious.

 

[Carp]

Just admit it, man. It was more than a tug, you had your arm wrapped around his neck and shoulders. I knew it as soon as the play happened it was so obvious.

Tyron Smith admits his holding penalty can’t happen again

Posted by Michael David Smith on October 31, 2013, 6:44 AM EDT

Tyron SmithAP
Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford’s game-winning touchdown with 12 seconds remaining might not have happened if not for a little help from Cowboys offensive tackle Tyron Smith.

On the Cowboys’ last play of the possession immediately before the Lions’ game-winning drive, Smith was called for holding. That penalty stopped the clock and gave the Lions an extra 40 seconds. Smith didn’t think his hold was blatant — he called it “a tug” — but he acknowledged that it was a mistake he shouldn’t have made.

“It’s a technique issue, but I have to clean up that mistake and make sure it doesn’t happen again,” Smith said, via ESPNDallas.com.

If it hadn’t happened this time, the Cowboys probably would have beaten the Lions.
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Hopefully this will suffice for Iamtdg.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

There was no point to a FG in that situation, if anything it was an undue risk, even at under 50 yards because a miss would have given the Lions the ball with a minute left and only about 25-30 yards to go for a field goal attempt of their own.

The right call in that situation is take a knee, then a delay of game, punt from the 40 or so yard line and hope to pin them inside the 20 with around 25 seconds to play.

The run was the correct call. It runs more time off the clock and if you pop it and get a first down it is game over. The problem wasn't with the call, it was with the stupid ass player who takes any risk with a penalty on that play.

 

[ravidubey]

There was no point to a FG in that situation, if anything it was an undue risk, even at under 50 yards because a miss would have given the Lions the ball with a minute left and only about 25-30 yards to go for a field goal attempt of their own.

The right call in that situation is take a knee, then a delay of game, punt from the 40 or so yard line and hope to pin them inside the 20 with around 25 seconds to play.

That extra 30 seconds is huge. I could still see Detroit driving 45 yards to get in FG range in 25 seconds, but it would be harder than driving 80 yards in 1:00, especially clocking to get the FG team on the field.

But a run is as good a call as a kneeldown because it has the added benefit of *possibly* setting up a makeable FG attempt with less than 30 seconds on the clock. That forces Detroit to go 80 yards in 25 seconds instead of 1:00.

Blaming the RB for cutting outside is retarded.

The OL have to know a penalty can lose the football game, that's all there is to it.

 

[superpunk]

That is silly to even remotely try to blame a RB for a hold.

It is where most holds take place, when the RB doesn't follow the design of the play (or the QB is scrambling). Offensive linemen's brains are tuned to staying in between the rusher and the ball carrier, so when the rusher suddenly goes in another direction, the lineman's instinct is to grab them.

It happens constantly. It's not necessarily anyone's fault, but everyone knows it which is why coaches want RBs to trust the play most of the time.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

It is where most holds take place, when the RB doesn't follow the design of the play (or the QB is scrambling). Offensive linemen's brains are tuned to staying in between the rusher and the ball carrier, so when the rusher suddenly goes in another direction, the lineman's instinct is to grab them.

It happens constantly. It's not necessarily anyone's fault, but everyone knows it which is why coaches want RBs to trust the play most of the time.

It's situational football. In that instance the RB has to know not to fumble the ball, and everyone else needs to know not to get a penalty. That's all there is to it.