Williams: Brandon Carr has another solid outing against another top-flight WR

[Cotton]

Brandon Carr has another solid outing against another top-flight WR

The Cowboys signed Brandon Carr last off-season to do what he did Sunday. He stopped DeSean Jackson cold.

Jackson caught three passes for 21 yards. In nine previous games against the Cowboys, Jackson never had fewer yards.

"He was pretty darn good,” Cowboys defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin said of Carr.

Carr has done "pretty darn good" for three consecutive weeks, since the Cowboys began matching him up against the opponent's top receiver. Carr held Denver’s DeMaryius Thomas to five catches for 57 yards and Washington’s Pierre Garcon to six catches for 69 yards.

"I say it all the time, man," Carr said. "It’s three hours I get an opportunity to come out here to play, three hours I get an opportunity to come out here and challenge myself and respond to the challenge that’s given to me by my coaches. I’m just out here doing my job. I’m one level of the defense. They assign me with checking whoever, just like everybody else has an assignment and I have to go out there and execute."

-- Charean Williams

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Brandon Carr has another solid outing against another top-flight WR

The Cowboys signed Brandon Carr last off-season to do what he did Sunday. He stopped DeSean Jackson cold.

Jackson caught three passes for 21 yards. In nine previous games against the Cowboys, Jackson never had fewer yards.

"He was pretty darn good,” Cowboys defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin said of Carr.

Carr has done "pretty darn good" for three consecutive weeks, since the Cowboys began matching him up against the opponent's top receiver. Carr held Denver’s DeMaryius Thomas to five catches for 57 yards and Washington’s Pierre Garcon to six catches for 69 yards.

"I say it all the time, man," Carr said. "It’s three hours I get an opportunity to come out here to play, three hours I get an opportunity to come out here and challenge myself and respond to the challenge that’s given to me by my coaches. I’m just out here doing my job. I’m one level of the defense. They assign me with checking whoever, just like everybody else has an assignment and I have to go out there and execute."

-- Charean Williams

Meaningless, corners don't matter.

 

[Smitty]

Meaningless, corners don't matter.

Not as much as DL does.

 

[Clay_Allison]

Not as much as DL does.

You can build a statistically good defense with bad corners, but it seems like you always get exposed in the playoffs when the corners allow big plays to elite receivers.

That was the big problem Dallas' defense had in the late 70s and early 80s. One of the best D-Lines ever, two great safeties, decent LB corps, but Benny Barnes, Aaron Kyle were scrubs and even Walls and Thurman were guys who were good at coming up with picks but also were slow and got burned.

The team was a lot more dominant defensively from the late 60s to the early 70s when we had a pro bowl cornerback (either Mel Renfro or Cornell Green) every year.

 

[kidd]

You can build a statistically good defense with bad corners, but it seems like you always get exposed in the playoffs when the corners allow big plays to elite receivers.

That was the big problem Dallas' defense had in the late 70s and early 80s. One of the best D-Lines ever, two great safeties, decent LB corps, but Benny Barnes, Aaron Kyle were scrubs and even Walls and Thurman were guys who were good at coming up with picks but also were slow and got burned.

The team was a lot more dominant defensively from the late 60s to the early 70s when we had a pro bowl cornerback (either Mel Renfro or Cornell Green) every year.

And in the 90s, we had one of the better secondarys.

I'm not saying D-line is not important. I'm with schmitty on the fact that if a QB is on his back, we don't need to worry about covering WRs. But to dismiss the secondary like he does makes no sense.

Is it lost on anyone here that Manning struggled last night against man on man coverage and that he picked our zone coverage apart. Once we started manning up on WRs, our defense improved. At least thats how I'm seeing it.

If we can sustain a little longer until we get Ware ack at 100%, maybe our D can be what we hope for. It won't be truly dominant but good enough to win a playoff.

On a sidenote, I'm giving Marinelli a tone of credit for what he's doing with our D-line.

 

[ravidubey]

Not as much as DL does.

I'd put the DE:CB and DT:Safety ratio of importance at 1.25 to 1. It's very close because when DL don't do their job well there are up to 10 other guys to fill in. On about half of the 30-50 pass attempts each game, if a CB or Safety doesn't do his job well there's just 1 guy who can help prevent points.

Basically you can't put all your eggs in any of the three defensive "baskets"-- DL, LB, Secondary. The best defenses spread their resources across all three.

You lean towards building up front, but a defense with four #1 draft picks on the DL with scrubs in the secondary would get assraped just as badly as the reverse.

 

[Smitty]

And in the 90s, we had one of the better secondarys.

Our DL was much better than Kevin Smith and Larry Brown. Larry Brown was an afterthought. Quick, name me who our third and fourth CBs were without looking.

Meanwhile, on the DL, we went two deep with starters at every position.

I'm not saying D-line is not important. I'm with schmitty on the fact that if a QB is on his back, we don't need to worry about covering WRs. But to dismiss the secondary like he does makes no sense.

I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying it's least important.

Something has to be least important. It's the secondary.

 

[Smitty]

I'd put the DE:CB and DT:Safety ratio of importance at 1.25 to 1. It's very close because when DL don't do their job well there are up to 10 other guys to fill in. On about half of the 30-50 pass attempts each game, if a CB or Safety doesn't do his job well there's just 1 guy who can help prevent points.

Basically you can't put all your eggs in any of the three defensive "baskets"-- DL, LB, Secondary. The best defenses spread their resources across all three.

You lean towards building up front, but a defense with four #1 draft picks on the DL with scrubs in the secondary would get assraped just as badly as the reverse.

You can't have shitty, easily exposable players anywhere. That's why we couldn't win with Terence Newman having the worst season of his career and Alan Ball coming in like dead last among all corners in 2010.

But it's been proven over and over and over again that the winning teams have good fronts. The defensive backfields might also be good, as its sometimes possible to assemble talent everywhere (though rarely), but it's almost uniform.

Ravens, Patriots, Buccaneers, Steelers, Colts, Giants.... all of those teams, some of whom won multiple championships since 2000, consistently prioritize DL over DB, whether in how they exercise their high draft picks or how they hand out their biggest contracts. Not saying that "none of those teams" ever spent a first round pick or a big contract on a DB, but you can bet their DLs were almost always in order.

The Pats in particular got by for years in the middle of the decade with nobodies at DB. They played Troy Brown there for a couple years, for chrissakes. Meanwhile they had Seymour, Wilfork, etc, on the line.

Giants? Sunk high pick after high pick into a line that already had Strahan. Meanwhile they trot out third round frequent whipping boy Corey Webster at CB.

The Ravens have and continue to invest in dynamite LBs and they have Ngata up front, but mid round picks in the secondary.

Steelers? Steelers played for years with guys like William Gay and Bryant McFadden as their corners.

It goes on and on.

There's a right way, and there's a wrong way.

We do it the wrong way. We have sunk significantly more resources into our defensive backfield in the past 2 offseasons than we can remotely afford to do given the state of our defensive (and offensive) lines.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Not as much as DL does.

Funny thing is right now we have 2 D-lineman on pace for double digit sacks and if Ware ever gets healthy we may have 3. On paper it may look like we have one of the best D-line in football when the season ends.

 

[Smitty]

Funny thing is right now we have 2 D-lineman on pace for double digit sacks and if Ware ever gets healthy we may have 3. On paper it may look like we have one of the best D-line in football when the season ends.

Marinelli has been turning chicken shit into chicken salad but it still shows up against the better offenses and better QBs like Manning and Rivers who get the ball out quickly. We just can't rattle them with this group.

 

[BipolarFuk]

Kevin Smith was an elite CB before injury.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Marinelli has been turning chicken shit into chicken salad but it still shows up against the better offenses and better QBs like Manning and Rivers who get the ball out quickly. We just can't rattle them with this group.

That happens even when our D-line is very talented. The best QBs in the NFL are rarely sacked because they get the ball out before any pass rusher can possibly get there unless the guy goes totally unblocked. It's why even if Ware beats him man entirely the pass can still be completed. It shows the weakness in theories about the importance of D-lineman...

 

[Smitty]

That happens even when our D-line is very talented.

And? It's still the best bet at beating them. The quicker they are getting the ball out to beat a rush, the easier it is on the DBs, meaning if you have a DL that is always forcing QBs into quick throws, your DBs job is easier and easier.

The problem is a Manning can put it in a window where there is great coverage and still complete it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The problem is a Manning can put it in a window where there is great coverage and still complete it.

Great Offense will always beat a great defense. If Manning is on top of his game it doesn't matter what talent you have on the D-line or at DB, he is going to beat you. Of course sometimes players have off games as you saw against the Colts.