Cowboys Free Agency Thread

Stasheroo

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Agreed, despite me being told this was "more bullshit."
Because it is.

Quinn also gets all this blame because he "sucks against the run" and Lawrence gets praised for it. But watch the games where mobile quarterbacks like Allen and Trubisky throttled this defense and had the best performances of their career. They were running around to their right side - Lawrence's side of the field - keeping drive after drive alive.

It's a bottom line business, and bottom line, Lawrence mustered just 5.5 sacks last year after getting his payday, while Quinn had 11.5 in just 14 games. And despite what the nickle and dime nerds at PFF might say, sacks are what sells in the NFL. They;re the game-changing defensive plays, along with INT's that the league values. And why those that get them get paid and those that do not, do not.
 

Smitty

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If we have a better defensive performance without two of the highest paid NFL free agents and subbing in Lewis and Gregory I'd say thats a massive sign that the coaching is the reason for it.
I've been saying this all along.

The talent losses are not so bad that the upgrade in coaching won't shine through.

If the wheels fall off, then we've been sold a false bill of goods on the coaching. Simply playing Lewis, something the last staff wouldn't do, means we will be able to tread water at CB. Safety has been upgraded. Maliek Collins was adequately replaced with McCoy. Quinn probably will not get a straight replacement unless a pass rusher falls to us in the first round. His production will be replaced by a return to form with Lawrence, and the return of Gregory and Crawford. Not a huge loss... probably equaled by the upgrade from Heath to Clinton-Dix.

If we can land Kinlaw or a stud safety in the first, we may be a better defense straight up.
 

NoDak

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But opinion does?
Says who? You?

No. What I'm actually watching on the field is what brings me to that conclusion. And it's a pretty safe bet that opposing coaches thought that Lawrence was our best pass rusher, too. That's pretty easy to see by just paying attention to where their blocking schemes were headed. From game 1 to game 16.
 

NoDak

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Last year, Quinn was better than Lawrence. And, it's not particularly close. And, before the pitchforks get brazened I said last year. And that statement is 100% true.
And I completely disagree.
 

Smitty

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I absolutely do.
I don't agree, even with Lawrence having a down year.

Quinn was good though. I'm not shitting on him.

But I do think people are sleeping on Gregory. Him, in combination with Lawrence returning to form, should make up for most of the loss of Quinn.

I also feel like Quinn was very hot and cold. He'd get a sack, then disappear for long stretches too.
 

Cotton

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Because it is.

Quinn also gets all this blame because he "sucks against the run" and Lawrence gets praised for it. But watch the games where mobile quarterbacks like Allen and Trubisky throttled this defense and had the best performances of their career. They were running around to their right side - Lawrence's side of the field - keeping drive after drive alive.

It's a bottom line business, and bottom line, Lawrence mustered just 5.5 sacks last year after getting his payday, while Quinn had 11.5 in just 14 games. And despite what the nickle and dime nerds at PFF might say, sacks are what sells in the NFL. They;re the game-changing defensive plays, along with INT's that the league values. And why those that get them get paid and those that do not, do not.
Quinn had the best year of his career rushing the passer last year. Hence, the "last year" part of my statement above. Now, if you ask me "Who is the better pass rusher, Lawrence or Quinn?" I would give you Lawrence, but LAST YEAR, Quinn was simply better.
 

Smitty

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My order of importance for FA right at this moment:

NT
WR
LB
DE
I'd go

WR
DT
DE
CB

With Lee and Joe Thomas back I don't think we need a LB.... unless Vander Esch is finished, but in that case, we're fucked either way.

I'd like a DT, but we are basically exactly where we were last year with DT if Antuan Woods re-signs.
 

Cotton

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I don't agree, even with Lawrence having a down year.

Quinn was good though. I'm not shitting on him.

But I do think people are sleeping on Gregory. Him, in combination with Lawrence returning to form, should make up for most of the loss of Quinn.

I also feel like Quinn was very hot and cold. He'd get a sack, then disappear for long stretches too.
How can you say he disappeared for long stretches when he averaged almost a sack a game? That's silly.
 

Simpleton

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I'm not. Lewis is certainly more of a playmaker on the football, but he's also feast or famine and nowhere as reliable as Jones was. Not even close. Lewis may make a big play and is just as likely to give up several. That's a big reason why he never played regularly.



I'm with you on either of the defensive tackles, especially since they haven't done anything there other than the McCoy signing. And I'm OK with Henderson if it came down to it. As for the others? No, not at pick #17.



WR? Yeah, I'm out on that. Even if it is deep in that area. Defensive needs far outweigh getting a #3 receiver. And Jarwin is your TE.
I'm implying that I'd rather roll the dice on a guy who can take the ball away for 1/8th of the price than an elite cover guy who is allergic to the ball for 16 a year. Sure, in pure coverage it's a downgrade, but you can't resign everybody and as long as the money they saved on Jones is reinvested elsewhere (Sanders, Griffen, etc.) then I'm happy with it. And if we were to draft Henderson at 17 you could easily make the argument that we're stronger at CB than last year, or even a guy like Jaylon Johnson in the 2nd or Cameron Dantzler in the 3rd.

As an aside, are you saying you wouldn't take Chaisson or McKinney at 17?

McKinney I understand if you're simply looking to fill holes but Chaisson fills a pretty big need as the roster is currently structured and is definitely worth a top 20 pick.

And by the way, it's pretty idiotic to pigeonhole positions to rounds based on need, if there is an amazing value on the board like a Jalen Reagor in the 2nd or Michael Pittman in the 4th because other positions have been picked over, and you ignore it, you're making a massive mistake.
 

Smitty

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How can you say he disappeared for long stretches when he averaged almost a sack a game? That's silly.
I think he'd get a sack, but then fail to impact the rest of the game as strongly.

Again, I'm not shitting on him, but I do not remember consistent disruption from him. He's a valuable second rusher, but was not last year nor will he be in the future someone who would be the primary rusher.
 

Stasheroo

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I didn't say Randy Gregory was an "equal replacement" to Quinn.
So now you are admitting to a dropoff in talent? Which is it?

Read this carefully, because I think you've worked yourself into a frothing lunatic over very little here:

We are not substantially worse, talent wise, even as we stand here today, over what we fielded last year.
A flat-out lie. You just admitted it one sentence ago, and now you're back to this bullshit again?

And, as I also said from the very beginning of this debate, "It's not over yet." So yes, I am basing my assessment on things that are going to still happen; it's a very basic tenant of my position. There are some quality guys we have yet to sign or draft still. Wouldn't you know it, from the time I originally said that, we signed Clinton-Dix.
The again, if your position is based on hypotheticals that haven't and might not ever happen, save us the trouble and keep them in your head until they do. Otherwise, it's a bunch of shit.

As Simp has pointed out to you, losing Jones is not the end of the world. Lewis is a very good player who has been criminally underutilized here. Frankly, I will straight up say we are better off not paying Jones and re-investing that money elsewhere.
The money is an altogether separate issue over the quality of play. Don't get confused.

As far as DL, losing Quinn stings a little, but he had 11.5 sacks in a campaign where Lawrence had a massive down year with only 5 sacks. Gregory is quite capable of putting up 6 sacks even as a situational player, and yes, possibly more.
Stop mentioning the name, you look stupid every time you do.

It will come out in the wash, especially when you figure in the return of Crawford as well, potentially. He is overpaid but a quality depth player.
Why? You counting on Crawford too? The hilarity continues. You're a fucking homer. Accept it.

Couple that with an expected bounce-back year from Lawrence, and the fact that we STILL HAVE THE DRAFT, and we will not be really that much worse off, if at all. If we were to draft Kinlaw at DT, I would say our DL is actually better off than last year.
You're quite the dreamer, aren't you? Your 'plan" consists of nothing more than perfect scenarios, hopes, and dreams.

We can sign Griffen or not. I would be in favor of it, but I don't know how much money he wants. He's also a 32 year old player who had 8 sacks last year but 5 the year before.... he's not necessarily a huge needle-mover. I like him as insurance but he alone doesn't make the difference between us being substantially worse or not.

The simple fact is, you have overblown our talent losses in comparison to our acquisitions. And I highly suspect there is an agenda behind it.
Yes there is, it's called reality. You should try it sometime.
 

Cowboysrock55

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No way does adding another DE mean as much to us as getting a quality third WR in here for Dak.

Our offense depends on it, frankly.
Frankly Dak was a big part of the reason that Cobb posted numbers he hasn't achieved in years. I'm not sure Cobb is really as good as his numbers indicated. Especially with Gallup and Cooper lighting it up on the outside.

I think slot receiver needs addressed but I think it was sort of an ideal situation for Cobb. I doubt he ever repeats it again in his career.
 

Cotton

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Been while since we had a Smitty/Other poster dust up. I'm here for it.
 

Stasheroo

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Says who? You?
Stats. Stats say different. Your opinion is just that, with no substance behind it.

No. What I'm actually watching on the field is what brings me to that conclusion. And it's a pretty safe bet that opposing coaches thought that Lawrence was our best pass rusher, too. That's pretty easy to see by just paying attention to where their blocking schemes were headed. From game 1 to game 16.
I'll educate you, free of charge:


But feel free to dispute actual numbers with baseless, unsupported, inaccurate opinions yet again.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Give me Emanuel Sanders and I'm calling the offense good going into the draft. Focus on the defense.
I'm cool with Sanders but I'd rather get a real NT first. That position really worries me. And before I get the typical Schmitty respnse that we basically are the same at DT as last year. First of all that's not true. Second of all we were god awful last year at stopping the run in games. And we actually need to get better. Not worse.
 

DontCryWolfe

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Looks like Stash and Smitty are in here with that cabin fever.

What little I can add to that conversation, while I do have high hopes for Gregory because his get off was just ridiculous, in no way should he be someone who is counted on or even expected to contribute during the season. Especially at this stage in the offseason.
 

NoDak

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Stats. Stats say different. Your opinion is just that, with no substance behind it.



I'll educate you, free of charge:


But feel free to dispute actual numbers with baseless, unsupported, inaccurate opinions yet again.
Well, Schmitty is certainly right about one thing... You do get defensive and go into attack mode. :lol But, thanks for offer, but I won't be needing any 'education' from you.

Again... If you want to go by just raw stats, cool. Let's fit him for his yellow jacket. But there is more to rushing the passer than just sack numbers. It's funny how people want to poo poo stats when they don't fit their argument, but they are the end all be all if they DO.

And one last time... I am not going on OPINION, as you keep insisting for some reason. I am going on what I am actually seeing. If you want to dismiss what opposing coaches are doing on the field in regards to where they are sliding their protection, that's fine.
 
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