Abortion... yeah or nah?

[Cotton]

Having a heartbeat doesn't make it a "living human being".

That's highly debatable.

 

[Cotton]

If you're not the one that got pregnant and it's not your "mistake", why should your views be imposed on them?

I don't know, because it's a human life. It's not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

 

[Cotton]

But you're probably right, let's make it so they have to have those babies they can't take care of, and fuck their lives real good

They can give that baby up for adoption and it doesn't cost them or their lives anything.

 

[Angrymesscan]

They can give that baby up for adoption and it doesn't cost them or their lives anything.

Yeah, because carrying a baby to term doesn't alter your life at all, nor childbirth, nor the scientific fact that your body will be pumping out industrial level hormones to create a bond between you and that baby...

In a perfect world there would not be the need for a person to take such an awful decision, I myself would probably, never take it. But I will not take the right to make that decision from someone else unless I'd be prepared to take on everything it entails.

 

[Angrymesscan]

That's highly debatable.

If it's debatable it is not a fact.

 

[Cotton]

Yeah, because carrying a baby to term doesn't alter your life at all, nor childbirth, nor the scientific fact that your body will be pumping out industrial level hormones to create a bond between you and that baby...

You said "life ruined". You are going to trip from that back-peddle.

 

[Cotton]

If it's debatable it is not a fact.

Being as it is a very ambiguous debate, nothing can be considered fact.

 

[Angrymesscan]

You said "life ruined". You are going to trip from that back-peddle.

And in many cases that might just be the case.

But I was answering to your

They can give that baby up for adoption and it doesn't cost them or their lives anything.

Which while you might consider mine hyperbole, your oversimplification is almost child like.

 

[Cotton]

Which while you might consider mine hyperbole, your oversimplification is almost child like.

Having to give birth to a child because of their own mistake? How dare I call that nothing?

 

[Angrymesscan]

Being as it is a very ambiguous debate, nothing can be considered fact.

Then why do you act as if it where? Should any pregnant woman who has a miscarriage be tried for reckless endagerment?

 

[Angrymesscan]

Having to give birth to a child because of their own mistake? How dare I call that nothing?

What if it's not their own mistake?

 

[Cotton]

Should any pregnant woman who has a miscarriage be tried for reckless endagerment?

I'm done.

 

[Angrymesscan]

I'm done.

Remember when you argued about gun control that it's a slippery road to go from a certain type of guns to all guns?

 

[Cotton]

Remember when you argued about gun control that it's a slippery road to go from a certain type of guns to all guns?

Apples and oranges.

 

[bbgun]

I'm of two minds about this:

1) It's state-sanctioned murder, esp after the child is viable (say, six or seven months). All the cognitive dissonance in the world won't change this.
2) It's a necessary evil, cutting down on the crime rate (down the road) and preventing an army of unwanted children and all of the social ills that stem from it.

 

[jsmith6919]

Hey we tried compromising, yall wouldn't go for the 20 week ban or even the born alive bill. If yalls position is not compromising at all why should we?

 

[boozeman]

What next? You know how long adoption waitlists are?

Wait...what?

There are over a hundred thousand kids a year that go un-adopted every year until they time out and just end up as part of the cycle in the protective services machine. The numbers of adoptions usually stay about the same year to year.

The reason is pretty simple. There is a long wait list because there is a shortage of kids people want. And namely that is white babies, adopted by white couples. People want to just order what they want and it simply isn't there.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/adoption...ity-and-gender

Adding to the issue is that black women abort children by nearly a 4x1 ratio.

https://www.bound4life.com/statistics
To pretend there is some long list of people waiting to adopt all of these babies is idiotic bullshit that is not even grounded in what the statistics say.

This would just add to the swell. When you have a swell like that, it is a burden on the government because there would need to be more social programs to meet those kids' needs.

That is why nobody ever answers the questions I noted. Ready to pay more taxes to pay for social programs to help single mothers and kids? Because that is exactly what it is going to lead to. Just because the woman was too stupid to leave her legs closed, we are going to punish the kid?

Certain socio-economic groups in this country do realize the benefit of pumping kid after kid out. It helps them exploit the government handouts with welfare and WIC.

This would make it even worse.

To me, that is not a fucking solution to anything other than having people who like enforcing their morality on others feel better about themselves.

 

[boozeman]

I'm of two minds about this:

1) It's state-sanctioned murder, esp after the child is viable (say, six or seven months). All the cognitive dissonance in the world won't change this.

Absolutely. There is no reason for some dumbass to go late in the pregnancy and then decide to abort. That simply does become murder.

But the heartbeat rule is basically just a step towards outright banning it. And that is what has people pissed off.

Sure, if Roe v. Wade got reduced down with time constrictions, there would still be a bunch of Handmaid's Tale cosplayers protesting, but so what.

2) It's a necessary evil, cutting down on the crime rate (down the road) and preventing an army of unwanted children and all of the social ills that stem from it.

This is a bigger deal to me than the morality issue. By a huge margin.

 

[NoDak]

Wait...what?

There are over a hundred thousand kids a year that go un-adopted every year until they time out and just end up as part of the cycle in the protective services machine. The numbers of adoptions usually stay about the same year to year.

The reason is pretty simple. There is a long wait list because there is a shortage of kids people want. And namely that is white babies, adopted by white couples. People want to just order what they want and it simply isn't there.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/adoption...ity-and-gender

Adding to the issue is that black women abort children by nearly a 4x1 ratio.

https://www.bound4life.com/statistics
To pretend there is some long list of people waiting to adopt all of these babies is idiotic bullshit that is not even grounded in what the statistics say.

This would just add to the swell. When you have a swell like that, it is a burden on the government because there would need to be more social programs to meet those kids' needs.

That is why nobody ever answers the questions I noted. Ready to pay more taxes to pay for social programs to help single mothers and kids? Because that is exactly what it is going to lead to. Just because the woman was too stupid to leave her legs closed, we are going to punish the kid?

Certain socio-economic groups in this country do realize the benefit of pumping kid after kid out. It helps them exploit the government handouts with welfare and WIC.

This would make it even worse.

To me, that is not a fucking solution to anything other than having people who like enforcing their morality on others feel better about themselves.

Maybe if the wait list wasn't so ridiculously long and the process so obnoxiously expensive, adoption would be a lot more appealing to people.

 

[Rev]

Maybe if the wait list wasn't so ridiculously long and the process so obnoxiously expensive, adoption would be a lot more appealing to people.

No question about that. We thought about adopting at one time but the .