2016-17 Championship Game Gameday Chatter | 1/22/17

Simpleton

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I don't think we're with out talent on defense. It's just that outside of Lee we really don't have playmakers (especially at pass rush). Most of the guys are just "solid."

As far as marinelli, he seems to have at least some input in personnel. He was happy as shit when we took Gregory. And passing on Floyd apparently was a marinelli thing.

It's not like they send him out for bagels while they discuss what defensive players they like.
Yes, we need playmakers, we have the foot soldiers, now we need a star or two. I totally get the philosophy behind signing cheap, young, supposedly athletic DL the last few years. We didn't have much cap flexibility and were taking low-risk gambles on guys who could potentially be coached up and play 20 or so snaps in a rotation.

It's different now though, we have decent enough depth but we need difference makers, and obviously there should be more cap flexibility with Romo's departure.
 

1bigfan13

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Anyone have an idea of when the last time we made some adjustments within our scouting department? Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Because college scouting seems to be our biggest problem.

As C-Rock pointed out, the Cowboys actually do invest quality draft picks into the defensive side of the ball. However those picks rarely develop into anything special.

Think about it. The last time we drafted a Pro Bowl caliber player on defense was Sean Lee back in 2010. Since then Byron Jones has arguably been the best defensive player drafted by the Cowboys. That’s unacceptable. 6 years of NFL drafts and the best player you’ve produced is Byron Jones marginal ass? Heads should be rolling.

Clearly the scouts evaluating defensive players at the collegiate level are not pulling their weight.
 

BipolarFuk

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Anyone have an idea of when the last time we made some adjustments within our scouting department? Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Because college scouting seems to be our biggest problem.

As C-Rock pointed out, the Cowboys actually do invest quality draft picks into the defensive side of the ball. However those picks rarely develop into anything special.

Think about it. The last time we drafted a Pro Bowl caliber player on defense was Sean Lee back in 2010. Since then Byron Jones has arguably been the best defensive player drafted by the Cowboys. That’s unacceptable. 6 years of NFL drafts and the best player you’ve produced is Byron Jones marginal ass? Heads should be rolling.

Clearly the scouts evaluating defensive players at the collegiate level are not pulling their weight.
Collins had 5 sacks as a rookie DT. He's probably going to be a player.
 

Jiggyfly

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Anyone have an idea of when the last time we made some adjustments within our scouting department? Particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Because college scouting seems to be our biggest problem.

As C-Rock pointed out, the Cowboys actually do invest quality draft picks into the defensive side of the ball. However those picks rarely develop into anything special.

Think about it. The last time we drafted a Pro Bowl caliber player on defense was Sean Lee back in 2010. Since then Byron Jones has arguably been the best defensive player drafted by the Cowboys. That’s unacceptable. 6 years of NFL drafts and the best player you’ve produced is Byron Jones marginal ass? Heads should be rolling.

Clearly the scouts evaluating defensive players at the collegiate level are not pulling their weight.
What?

So we just ignore the season Lawrence had last year?

Or how about the season Collins had this year or Brown for that matter.

Injuries and suspensions have been the issue far more that not identifying talent especially considering the resources used.
 

1bigfan13

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What?

So we just ignore the season Lawrence had last year?

Or how about the season Collins had this year or Brown for that matter.

Injuries and suspensions have been the issue far more that not identifying talent especially considering the resources used.
I’m not saying the scouting department has been awful. But even you have to admit that they could and should be doing better. Those players that you mentioned are nice players, but name one who is an actual impact player who you can count on to show up and perform at a Pro Bowl level on a weekly level.

I’ll wait.

Those are the kind of players that we’re failing to find in the draft.
 

boozeman

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What?

So we just ignore the season Lawrence had last year?

Or how about the season Collins had this year or Brown for that matter.

Injuries and suspensions have been the issue far more that not identifying talent especially considering the resources used.
:zzz

A couple of decent draftees last year does not erase the fact that this defense has one star player, and that is Sean Lee.
 

Texas Ace

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I don't think we're with out talent on defense. It's just that outside of Lee we really don't have playmakers (especially at pass rush). Most of the guys are just "solid."

As far as marinelli, he seems to have at least some input in personnel. He was happy as shit when we took Gregory. And passing on Floyd apparently was a marinelli thing.

It's not like they send him out for bagels while they discuss what defensive players they like.
I think that is a very accurate assessment of the defensive personnel.

We need more playmakers all around, but we've got to get two this offseason -- one on the D-line and the other in the secondary.

That's why I wouldn't mind big money to Eric Berry. That guy is a stud who can change a game back there.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You know, that's an interesting point. He really did look overweight. Hopefully he gets lighter this off-season.
I think that is a very accurate assessment of the defensive personnel.

We need more playmakers all around, but we've got to get two this offseason -- one on the D-line and the other in the secondary.

That's why I wouldn't mind big money to Eric Berry. That guy is a stud who can change a game back there.
Yep, lots of good sound players but no one special. And hell maybe Collins takes the next step to special. Or Brown or Jones or someone else. I think Jaylon Smith will be special. But what we need is a special pass rusher.

You can get by with good everywhere but not great for awhile. But if you want a Superbowl you need stars to come up big in big games and we don't have that on defense right now.
 

Simpleton

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:zzz

A couple of decent draftees last year does not erase the fact that this defense has one star player, and that is Sean Lee.
I think Collins looks like a future star, 5 sacks as a rookie DT is extremely impressive.

The point about our defense not having enough talent remains though, but I'd still mostly put it on taking outsized risks in the draft for no good reason.

Trade ups for Claiborne and Lawrence both cost us 3rd rounders, Gregory and Smith don't require any explanation, Bruce Carter and Lee were of course injury risks.

The only defensive players we've taken in the first 3 rounds since 2010 who haven't cost us a premium pick in a trade up or who haven't had some kind of serious injury/character risk have been Tyrone Crawford, J.J. Wilcox (who had like 2 years of experience as a safety in college), Byron Jones and Maliek Collins.

That's four players since 2010 who haven't required a significant trade up or who have came with a significant risk, and of those players I'd say Jones and Collins were hits, perhaps Crawford as well if you ignore the contract. Of course they hit on Lee but that's one risk that's panned out so far, and you have to take into consideration that Crawford was drafted to play a 3-4.

The point is that the talent evaluation isn't terrible, it's that they take unnecessary risks that don't pan out. If they just "play it down the middle" moving forward I think we should be fine.
 

VA Cowboy

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Cotton

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:lol
 

boozeman

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ravidubey

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Maybe he was reading where Ravi said the heavier the DE, the better. :art
Continue to drink the Marinelli Kool Aid. It's a non-functional formula without elite talents on the defensive interior playing at a high level. Warren Sapp, Booger McFarland... don't see these guys in Dallas.

Those resources have been used on the OL.

Meanwhile on best the team in football knows how to build a DL:

Chris Long 276
Alan Branch 325
Malcolm Brown 319
Trey Flowers 266

I'd prefer Long was 5 pounds heavier, and I don't mean flabbier.
 

BipolarFuk

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Continue to drink the Marinelli Kool Aid. It's a non-functional formula without elite talents on the defensive interior playing at a high level. Warren Sapp, Booger McFarland... don't see these guys in Dallas.

Those resources have been used on the OL.

Meanwhile on best the team in football knows how to build a DL:

Chris Long 276
Alan Branch 325
Malcolm Brown 319
Trey Flowers 266

I'd prefer Long was 5 pounds heavier, and I don't mean flabbier.
5 pounds of meat? :gayflag
 

NoDak

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Continue to drink the Marinelli Kool Aid.
:lol Jesus. It was a joke, not a dick. Don't take it so hard.

And while you're at it, see if you can find ANYWHERE that I have stuck up for Marinelli, much less drank the kool aid over him.
 

ravidubey

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:lol Jesus. It was a joke, not a dick. Don't take it so hard.

And while you're at it, see if you can find ANYWHERE that I have stuck up for Marinelli, much less drank the kool aid over him.
Peace. :buddy

I've been under the weather last couple of days.
 
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