Graziano: Why Garrett remains in Cowboys' plans

[Smitty]

Ignore your dicktitude all you want, its not going anywhere.

You bitch about corners, but you're the first one in the gameday thread to go all CARR!!! CLAIBORNE!!!!! When a play is made.

How is that relevant? I don't have a personal problem with them as people.

I also fist-pump when Dan Bailey hits a winning FG, but I would call it moronic if the team spent a first round pick or $50 million on a kicker. You have no point.

And I'm not "ignoring" my dickitude, I'm saying I don't care how you view it.

 

[Lotuseater]

No one should have any kind of positive recollection of Mike Jenkins. He is a cowardly, over-drafted POS. The fact that Garrett got rid, improves my opinion of Garrett, not Jenkins. I hated him as a player.

Yep. Although smitty does have a point. A pairing of Carr and Jenkins would have netted us 1 meaningless int. less than we had last year at a much cheaper price. And we'd also have at least two other higher caliber players for the two picks we gave away for Claiborne.

Claiborne is a good player and will get even better, but we could have used another solid lineman and maybe a safety more than him.

 

[Lotuseater]

How is that relevant? I don't have a personal problem with them as people.

I also fist-pump when Dan Bailey hits a winning FG, but I would call it moronic if the team spent a first round pick or $50 million on a kicker. You have no point.

And I'm not "ignoring" my dickitude, I'm saying I don't care how you view it.

I'm not surprised you don't get it.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

No one should have any kind of positive recollection of Mike Jenkins. He is a cowardly, over-drafted POS. The fact that Garrett got rid, improves my opinion of Garrett, not Jenkins. I hated him as a player.

This isn't how I remember him at all. I remember him as an excellent cover corner when he was on top of his game. Of course he also had an entire season where he was terrible because he lost his confidence and wasn't on top of his game. I remember him playing with basically one arm because the other one was severely injured but he still stuck it out in the game. I really see no reason to dislike the guy, he played like a warrior for us at times. I know he pussed out on a tackle here or there but that's hardly enough reason to hate him.

 

[Genghis Khan]

This isn't how I remember him at all. I remember him as an excellent cover corner when he was on top of his game. Of course he also had an entire season where he was terrible because he lost his confidence and wasn't on top of his game. I remember him playing with basically one arm because the other one was severely injured but he still stuck it out in the game. I really see no reason to dislike the guy, he played like a warrior for us at times. I know he pussed out on a tackle here or there but that's hardly enough reason to hate him.

I completely agree. I'd go as far as to say Jenkins was our best corner last year.

Anyone who calls Jenkins cowardly and over-drafted either doesn't know what he is looking at or can't get out of the way of his own personal bias.

 

[Smitty]

I'm not surprised you don't get it.

Feel free to explain, because as of right now, your position that "I can't cheer for a player if I don't like the acquisition" makes no sense.

 

[Lotuseater]

I completely agree. I'd go as far as to say Jenkins was our best corner last year.

Anyone who calls Jenkins cowardly and over-drafted either doesn't know what he is looking at or can't get out of the way of his own personal bias.

Oh how soon we forget. Jenkins was not our best corner. That would be Carr hands down.

 

[ravidubey]

I'd go as far as to say Jenkins was our best corner last year..

Hyperbole. I'm no fan of Jerry's excessive corner-love either, but this is an outlandish statement.

Jenkins' play was average and he received an average deal as his reward. He didn't cause a single fumble, didn't intercept a single pass, and was credited with 3 passes defended in the 13 games he played. If he truly was Dallas' best CB last year he'd have been snapped up immediately instead of trying the market for weeks before ending up in Oakland.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Jenkins didn't get a ton of snaps last season so pointing at stats doesn't tell the whole story. Especially considering corners can play perfectly well without racking up stats.

It's not hyperbole; I am going by what I saw. He was very good in coverage last year. Teams weren't knocking down Jenkins' door in free agency because he didn't play a lot, not because he played poorly.

 

[Lotuseater]

Jenkins didn't get a ton of snaps last season so pointing at stats doesn't tell the whole story. Especially considering corners can play perfectly well without racking up stats.

It's not hyperbole; I am going by what I saw. He was very good in coverage last year. Teams weren't knocking down Jenkins' door in free agency because he didn't play a lot, not because he played poorly.

Horseshit. Nobody wanted him because he's a streaky player that makes business decisions. The same reason we let him walk. If he was our yee haw best corner, he would have been paid like it. Hell, look what got thrown to scandrick.

Like I said, Jenkins wasn't the answer here. It may be overkill to have Claiborne and Carr but I'm glad we have them now, if only so JJ will move on from obsessing over corners for a few years.

I'm hoping his next obsession is the d line.

 

[Cotton]

Jenkins wasn't our best corner last year simply because he wasn't called on enough, but it's hard to point to the one that was. Our pass rush sucked, so it's hard to judge.

 

[Lotuseater]

Jenkins wasn't our best corner last year simply because he wasn't called on enough, but it's hard to point to the one that was. Our pass rush sucked, so it's hard to judge.

That's easy, to me. Its the one that makes the most game changing plays. Carr by a mile.

 

[Angrymesscan]

Jenkins didn't get a ton of snaps last season so pointing at stats doesn't tell the whole story. Especially considering corners can play perfectly well without racking up stats.

It's not hyperbole; I am going by what I saw. He was very good in coverage last year. Teams weren't knocking down Jenkins' door in free agency because he didn't play a lot, not because he played poorly.

If you're kicking ass you get picked up ASAP, even if you just play three plays a game. You don't get the big bucks, but they pick you up.

 

[Smitty]

Horseshit. Nobody wanted him because he's a streaky player that makes business decisions. The same reason we let him walk. If he was our yee haw best corner, he would have been paid like it. Hell, look what got thrown to scandrick.

I wouldn't say Jenkins was our best corner but the people saying he "wasn't an answer" here are just as wrong. The relationship between the team and Jenkins had deteriorated and there is no other explanation needed.

If we hadn't essentially replaced him a full season before he left the team you would have seen a different performance. I'm not saying Jenkins is Darrelle Revis, but he's fine as a starting CB when healthy. I would even be fine with him as a #1 CB, if I could expect the same performance I got out of him in 2009-2011. I guess after him basically being relegated to the bench I can't guarantee that level of play anymore but there was no problem with Jenkins and we basically pushed him out, I suspect because of his handling of an injury.

It's water under the bridge now; the fact is we spent a lot of assets on corners, neither of them are Darrelle Revises either, and building your defense from the outside-in is the surest way to have a lousy defense that there is out there. Are there exceptions? Of course, but that's the rule.

Like I said, Jenkins wasn't the answer here.

And like I said, you are incorrect if you are saying he couldn't have been a quality starter here.

It may be overkill to have Claiborne and Carr

Not maybe. Was.

but I'm glad we have them now, if only so JJ will move on from obsessing over corners for a few years.

JJ never moves on from obsessing over corners. He only will refrain from taking one in the first or second rounds for a couple years now because he has an even bigger obsession against challenging starters. So Carr and Claiborne are safe unless they have serious injury problems or royally fuck up.

Doesn't change the fact that Jerry devotes assets to CB before he does anything else. That means the rest of the defense gets leftovers... unless you think we'll be handing out another $50 million contract or 6th overall pick to a free agent/rookie DL any time soon.

I'm hoping his next obsession is the d line.

I'm hoping a bus hits him as he's walking across the street. I can hope for fantasy things too, but if it's not clear to you where Jerry's priorities are, you haven't been paying attention.

At the end of the day, the resources we spend on the defense is a zero-sum game. Our overinvestment at cornerback right now is hurting our ability to field a better defense by having a better DL. It's a direct correlation. I'd love to have Carr and Claiborne and Fletcher Cox and Henry Melton and Elvis Dumervil too but you can't have them all. We'd be better off with the higher end DLs and the lower end DBs.

 

[Lotuseater]

Well smitty,you say they started building from the outside in, but I think they started with the ILB position. Or the d-line first if you want to go back to 2005. Two first round caliber guys in ware and spears, two in Lee and Carter(both had first round grades), Carr and Claiborne have been just the most recent.

Just spitballing here.

 

[Smitty]

Well smitty,you say they started building from the outside in, but I think they started with the ILB position. Or the d-line first if you want to go back to 2005.

Or CB if you want to go back to 2003. We could go around and around to find "the first" big asset spent on either CB or DL. That's not the point.

Two first round caliber guys in ware and spears, two in Lee and Carter(both had first round grades), Carr and Claiborne have been just the most recent.

The issue is, we were dreadfully thin and aging along the DL and in the pass rusher department prior to last season, whereas CB does not need the premium assets to be adequately fixed. A combination of reliable mid level FA vets plus a second or third round pick (instead of the wasted picks of Crawford or Wilber) would have yielded us a very solid CB corps, plus the assets to adequately address DL, OL, or both.

Instead, we chose to discard assets in hand in the secondary (Jenkins) and then put way too many assets into the CB position when you consider the holes on the rest of our defense.

The point is, a smart team builder would say "The DL is more important. I'm not going to handcuff myself by spending all of my premium assets at CB this year when CB can be patched and be just fine, allowing me to sink my premium assets into the DL (or OL)."

Jerry chose CB over DL or OL last year. It was the wrong move. And he always chooses DB over DL in such a situation, just like he did in 2003 with Newman over Williams and Suggs (when Ware was chosen in 2005 we already had Newman).

 

[ravidubey]

I wouldn't say Jenkins was our best corner but the people saying he "wasn't an answer" here are just as wrong. The relationship between the team and Jenkins had deteriorated and there is no other explanation needed.

If we hadn't essentially replaced him a full season before he left the team you would have seen a different performance.

Then I'm sure as Hell glad he's gone. It's a perfect description of his character.

I'm not saying Jenkins is Darrelle Revis, but he's fine as a starting CB when healthy. I would even be fine with him as a #1 CB, if I could expect the same performance I got out of him in 2009-2011. I guess after him basically being relegated to the bench I can't guarantee that level of play anymore but there was no problem with Jenkins and we basically pushed him out, I suspect because of his handling of an injury.

It's water under the bridge now; the fact is we spent a lot of assets on corners, neither of them are Darrelle Revises either, and building your defense from the outside-in is the surest way to have a lousy defense that there is out there. Are there exceptions? Of course, but that's the rule.

The bottom line is he rarely stayed healthy and had one good season in five years. Last year Orlando Scandrick got hurt, Mo Claiborne was a rookie, Brandon Carr was forced to play a game at safety, and the Cowboys faced a ton of spread formations -- Jenkins had every opportunity to make a mark.

If for one second he showed signs of being the playmaker the Cowboys thought they were drafting instead of the guy who consistently gave up when he thought the world was against him (and if you need examples of this you haven't been watching) you can damned well believe he'd either still be wearing a star or he'd have been signed first thing in free agency. He isn't and he wasn't.