Archer: Looking back so Cowboys don't make same 2010 mistake

[Carp]

Good thing I never said anybody should be assured a spot.

This not an attack on you, my point is we have to do better than what we had this year. Be butthurt though.

 

[Clay_Allison]

He just hates Spencer so anybody will do.

You seriously want him back? At his age and with his injury history?

 

[ravidubey]

Spencer should stay in Dallas and I'm sure he can be had for a decent price.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

A lot of guys in the draft look like they have a lot of talent bit don't. He's one of those guys.

He has 17.5 sacks in 4 seasons worth of games. Marinelli would get out him what he's gotten out of guys like we already have. At best.

Some guys in the draft look like they have a lot of talent, land in the wrong situation and it takes a change of scenery for them to finally showcase that talent. Case in point is Jerry Hughes. He was a late first round pick by the Colts. In his first 3 seasons in the NFL he totaled 5 sacks. He went to the Buffalo Bills and the last 2 seasons he has posted 19.5 sacks.

You make it sound like Graham is a talent on the same level as a guy like George Selvie. Yet George Selvie before coming to the Cowboys didn't have a resume that could even come close to that of Graham. His best NFL season at that point was 1.5 sacks. Came to Dallas and he posted 10 sacks in two years. Graham on the other hand is a former first rounder with a couple of 5.5 sack seasons on his resume, if Marinelli is able to increase his production at all (Which is highly likely) he could be a 8-10 sack type guy.

I'm not saying spend big money on Graham but righting him off as no more talented then someone like Selvie is just silly.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Some guys in the draft look like they have a lot of talent, land icurrentlye wrong situation and it takes a change of scenery for them to finally showcase that talent. Case in point is Jerry Hughes. He was a late first round pick by the Colts. In his first 3 seasons in the NFL he totaled 5 sacks. He went to the Buffalo Bills and the last 2 seasons he has posted 19.5 sacks.

You make it sound like Graham is a talent on the same level as a guy like George Selvie. Yet George Selvie before coming to the Cowboys didn't have a resume that could even come close to that of Graham. His best NFL season at that point was 1.5 sacks. Came to Dallas and he posted 10 sacks in two years. Graham on the other hand is a former first rounder with a couple of 5.5 sack seasons on his resume, if Marinelli is able to increase his production at all (Which is highly likely) he could be a 8-10 sack type guy.

I'm not saying spend big money on Graham but righting him off as no more talented then someone like Selvie is just silly.

I don't think it's highly likely that Marinelli would get more sacks out of Graham at all. I think Graham is already maxed out.

You seem to be stuck on Graham being a high draft pick and having a lot of potential out of college. I've seen Graham up close for 4 or 5 years, whatever it's been. I'm telling you, he's not that good.

Keep in mind, he played in the wide 9 for a couple years, which is conducive to getting pressure from the linemen. And he bit the big one. He's only shown a glimmer of usefulness in Billy Davis' 3-4.

Marinelli would not magically make him an 8-10 sack guy, just like he hasn't with anyone else curr on the roster.

Consider this: if Philly lets him walk after his rookie contract, isn't that an indication that they don't think he's all that good? Because they have plenty of cap space and he won't command much money.

Sorry. Not interested.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Spencer should stay in Dallas and I'm sure he can be had for a decent price.

The last rwo years of Spencer has shown me that he isn't dependable. It took him entirely too long to rehab and i am of the impression that he planned to have only a partial years performance. I could be wrong about him but at the moment i do not trust him enough to commit to a contract beyond one year.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Consider this: if Philly lets him walk after his rookie contract, isn't that an indication that they don't think he's all that good? Because they have plenty of cap space and he won't command much money.

Sorry. Not interested.

Mickey Spags rule?

I've watched him as well. His opportunities have been greatly limited by the Eagles organization for one reason or another. When he has gotten chances though I've seen the guy make plays. There is more talent there then you give credit for. It's not just about his draft stock either. I've been watching the guy his whole career. He is on a different level then guys like Selvie. Now maybe he has a terrible attitude. I don't really know that, but if that's the case then maybe we should stay away. Then again Mincey supposedly once had a terrible attitude and missed practices.

 

[ravidubey]

The last rwo years of Spencer has shown me that he isn't dependable. It took him entirely too long to rehab and i am of the impression that he planned to have only a partial years performance. I could be wrong about him but at the moment i do not trust him enough to commit to a contract beyond one year.

I think this is why he can be had for a low cost and thus low risk. Hard to find 9 year vets who can still bring heat in a pinch without overpaying. Spencer was right there with Lawrence and Mincey as our best pass rushers in the playoffs.

The position badly needs an infusion of talent, but that doesn't mean we can afford to let the talent we do have go.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I think this is why he can be had for a low cost and thus low risk. Hard to find 9 year vets who can still bring heat in a pinch without overpaying. Spencer was right there with Lawrence and Mincey as our best pass rushers in the playoffs.

The position badly needs an infusion of talent, but that doesn't mean we can afford to let the talent we do have go.

To me Spencer is a fall back option type. Go into free agency and see if you can get some younger talent at the position. See what happens in the draft. Then when it's all said and done if Spencer is still sitting their available and you still have a spot to fill then go ahead and sign him and see if he can make the roster.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Mickey Spags rule?

I've watched him as well. His opportunities have been greatly limited by the Eagles organization for one reason or another. When he has gotten chances though I've seen the guy make plays. There is more talent there then you give credit for. It's not just about his draft stock either. I've been watching the guy his whole career. He is on a different level then guys like Selvie. Now maybe he has a terrible attitude. I don't really know that, but if that's the case then maybe we should stay away. Then again Mincey supposedly once had a terrible attitude and missed practices.

How did I know you were going to make a false comparison to the Spags rule.

Let me spell out the logic a little slower for you. He was a first round pick. He's in what should be the prime of his career. He's not expensive. He's coming from a team with plenty of cap room. And that team needs a young pass rusher pretty badly. So bad that they reached ridiculously for a pass rusher in last year's first round of the draft.

Teams move on from 1st round picks after their rookie contracts are up usually for one of two reasons, money or performance. And it isn't about money here.

Just the fact that you are fighting so hard for the guy tells me you way overrate him.

I guarantee you haven't seen the Eagles as much as I have. I see them every god damn week.

You don't like comparing a 4 sack a year guy to Selvie and Mincy? That's your prerogative. But Selvie has an 8 sack year under his belt. Graham? Not so much. It's not about lack of opportunity, Graham played plenty of snaps last year and he had 5 sacks. 5. In his 4th season. You don't think a team would give their 1st round pick every chance to succeed? Of course they would.

You suggested he'd get 8-10 sacks here. That's ludicrous. That's a Greg Ellis type. Ellis was twice the player Graham is.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The last rwo years of Spencer has shown me that he isn't dependable. It took him entirely too long to rehab and i am of the impression that he planned to have only a partial years performance.

Eh... I really doubt we bring him back, so I don't think it will even be an issue... But you can't blame him for how long it took him to come back. The guy had an extremely serious injury that required a delicate and miserable rehab. He's lucky he even was able to play at all last year.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You don't like comparing a 4 sack a year guy to Selvie and Mincy? That's your prerogative. But Selvie has an 8 sack year under his belt. Graham? Not so much. It's not about lack of opportunity, Graham played plenty of snaps last year and he had 5 sacks. 5. In his 4th season. You don't think a team would give their 1st round pick every chance to succeed? Of course they would.
.

Actually Selvie doesn't... He has a 7 sack year under his belt. Something he wasn't able to achieve until he was matched up with Marinelli. I'm not fighting so hard for the guy, just don't understand your hatred. He could be a nice low cost signing with the potential to pay some dividends. I've actually already said previously that I prefer Sheard for the young, once promising player who never lived up to his potential signing.

You act as though teams never overlook talent on their own roster. Happens all the time. Especially when a guy is drafted under one regime and ends up playing under a different coaching regime with different coaches and philosophies which is what has happened in Philly. Do you really think their coaching staff gives two craps about Graham and where he was drafted? Of course not.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

How did I know you were going to make a false comparison to the Spags rule.

Teams move on from 1st round picks after their rookie contracts are up usually for one of two reasons, money or performance. And it isn't about money here.

Also you apparently don't pay nearly as close of attention to the Eagles as you claim. Since they actually have made attempts to extend Graham's contract. Supposedly they have approached him with a 4 year contract offer during the 2014 season.

Report: Brandon Graham, Eagles talking new contract
31


By Chris Wesseling
Around the NFL Writer
Published: Dec. 17, 2014 at 10:33 a.m. Updated: Dec. 17, 2014 at 11:21 a.m.
Since the start of the 2014 season, Philadelphia Eagles pass rusher Brandon Graham has gone from trade candidate to nucleus player.


The team's brass approached Graham's camp with a four-year contract offer a couple of weeks ago, reports Geoff Mosher of CSN Philly. The two sides have continued negotiations as Graham enters the final games of a five-year rookie deal signed as the No. 13 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft.

Long believed to be better suited to defensive end in a 4-3 scheme, Graham was reportedly dangled in trade talks for Miami pass rusher Dion Jordan last offseason.

Fortunately for the Eagles, the Dolphins rejected the offer.

Finally getting comfortable in Billy Davis' 3-4 defense, Graham has excelled this season, ranking second on the team with 13.5 tackles for a loss, third in hurries (14) and fourth in sacks (5.5) as a rotational pass rusher behind Trent Cole and Connor Barwin.

Living in the backfield, Graham is also tied for second in the NFL with four forced fumbles.


Although Graham is looking forward to testing his market value, it's important for the Eagles to keep him in Philadelphia due to the uncertain futures of veteran Trent Cole and 2014 first-round draft pick Marcus Smith.

The latter hasn't proven ready to play and the former is due a $10 million base salary with a salary-cap number that balloons to $11.6 million in 2015.

With Cole nursing a fractured hand, Graham is excited about the prospect of his first start in more than two years.

"If I do real good these last two games, you never know," Graham said of his future. "Hopefully I'm here, man."

The latest Around The NFL Podcast recaps every Sunday game from Week 15 and discusses all the playoff implications. Find more Around The NFL content on NFL NOW.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Eh... I really doubt we bring him back, so I don't think it will even be an issue... But you can't blame him for how long it took him to come back. The guy had an extremely serious injury that required a delicate and miserable rehab. He's lucky he even was able to play at all last year.

I am familiar with his surgery and the rehab process. His took longer than most.

 

[ravidubey]

To me Spencer is a fall back option type. Go into free agency and see if you can get some younger talent at the position. See what happens in the draft. Then when it's all said and done if Spencer is still sitting their available and you still have a spot to fill then go ahead and sign him and see if he can make the roster.

Sure. You have to admit though it's hard to envision a scenario where the Cowboys DE depth is so talent-laden that there is no room for Spencer.

We know Spencer can even cover the short middle/flat in a zone blitz. If by some sweet fortune Dallas has 4 starting-caliber DEs next season and it came down to a Nick Hayden-type being our 5th best DT, then I'd definitely keep only 4 DTs and sign Spencer as the 5th DE.

If there was even more DL talent, I'd be tempted to keep 10 DL instead of 9 and drop a safety or LB. I'd still like to shift a slot to RB, but we can alway drop the FB position and make Hanna an H-back.

 

[Clay_Allison]

How did I know you were going to make a false comparison to the Spags rule.

Let me spell out the logic a little slower for you. He was a first round pick. He's in what should be the prime of his career. He's not expensive. He's coming from a team with plenty of cap room. And that team needs a young pass rusher pretty badly. So bad that they reached ridiculously for a pass rusher in last year's first round of the draft.

Teams move on from 1st round picks after their rookie contracts are up usually for one of two reasons, money or performance. And it isn't about money here.

Just the fact that you are fighting so hard for the guy tells me you way overrate him.

I guarantee you haven't seen the Eagles as much as I have. I see them every god damn week.

You don't like comparing a 4 sack a year guy to Selvie and Mincy? That's your prerogative. But Selvie has an 8 sack year under his belt. Graham? Not so much. It's not about lack of opportunity, Graham played plenty of snaps last year and he had 5 sacks. 5. In his 4th season. You don't think a team would give their 1st round pick every chance to succeed? Of course they would.

You suggested he'd get 8-10 sacks here. That's ludicrous. That's a Greg Ellis type. Ellis was twice the player Graham is.

I think he could get 4-5 sacks here as part of a rotation and be healthy all season. That's more than Spencer will be able to do at 32 on microfracture knees.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I am familiar with his surgery and the rehab process. His took longer than most.

No he did not and I posted the return of others with the same injury before in another thread.

He was right on schedule for microfracture surgery its obvious you are not familiar or just chose to ignore the facts.

 

[L.T. Fan]

No he did not and I posted the return of others with the same injury before in another thread.

He was right on schedule for microfracture surgery its obvious you are not familiar or just chose to ignore the facts.

Tell me. How long was it from his surgery until he began actual return to full practice ?

 

[Carp]

Tell me. How long was it from his surgery until he began actual return to full practice ?

www.google.com

 

[L.T. Fan]

www.google.com

I was asking Jiggy because he said he was right on schedule. I was interested what his timeline response was. Thanks for the intervention though.