Harvey: Case for Murray — it’s about value, not position

[Carp]

The "oversupply" of RBs is kind of exaggerated. Yeah the 2008 draft had some great 2nd rounders, a fine 3rd rounder, and notable 1st round busts, but that kind of depth is rare as shit.

A fully healthy DeMarco Murray couldn't repeat what he did for Dallas last year. It's unsustainable. You need multiple high quality players to replace that kind of performance, and that performance was critical to Dallas going 12-4.

Dallas needs multiple high-quality backs... and they have none.

They have most of the pieces of a defense that got them to 12-4, but they have no running backs. At all.

Dallas' window with Romo is in the process of slamming shut.

In one year with the 27th pick in each round, where are you going to find the biggest impact to get Dallas back into the playoffs and over the hump?

I don't think Dallas needs multiple high quality backs, that is a big overstatement. You could have lesser backs and succeed with the OL. If Randle is as bad as he sometimes is portrayed on the board, then that is a great example that the OL is the big driver in the run game. He put up good numbers behind them.

As far as impact players picking 27th...yeah, you most definitely can. If you look around the 27th pick in each round this last draft you can see there were plenty of impact players taken. We just have to be smart.

 

[ravidubey]

I don't think Dallas needs multiple high quality backs, that is a big overstatement. You could have lesser backs and succeed with the OL. If Randle is as bad as he sometimes is portrayed on the board, then that is a great example that the OL is the big driver in the run game. He put up good numbers behind them.

As far as impact players picking 27th...yeah, you most definitely can. If you look around the 27th pick in each round this last draft you can see there were plenty of impact players taken. We just have to be smart.

Randle's stats look good only because he had so few carries, he has one good run and then vanishes. Completely undependable. I say multiple backs because we have to replace Murray's 2014 productivity. 1800+rushing, 85 1st downs, 15 runs of 20+ yards, 57 catches for 416. No one player can do that, but you need the threat of it on every play.

Pick 27: 2nd tier WR, DL, OL or a top flight RB or DB? Top flight RB would without question provide the biggest impact given Romo's career is ending and Murray is gone. It's a case of value colliding with overwhelming need.

27th Pick in Round of NFL Draft

Year Name Team Position
2014 Deone Bucannon Cardinals DB
2013 DeAndre Hopkins Texans WR
2012 Kevin Zeitler Bengals G
2011 Jimmy Smith Ravens DB
2010 Devin McCourty Patriots DB
2009 Donald Brown Colts RB
2008 Antoine Cason Chargers DB
2007 Robert Meachem Saints WR
2006 DeAngelo Williams Panthers RB
2005 Roddy White Falcons WR
2004 Jason Babin Texans DE
2003 Larry Johnson Chiefs RB

 

[Carp]

Randle's stats look good only because he had so few carries, he has one good run and then vanishes. Completely undependable. I say multiple backs because we have to replace Murray's 2014 productivity. 1800+rushing, 85 1st downs, 15 runs of 20+ yards, 57 catches for 416. No one player can do that, but you need the threat of it on every play.

Pick 27: 2nd tier WR, DL, OL or a top flight RB or DB? Top flight RB would without question provide the biggest impact given Romo's career is ending and Murray is gone. It's a case of value colliding with overwhelming need.

27th Pick in Round of NFL Draft

Year Name Team Position
2014 Deone Bucannon Cardinals DB
2013 DeAndre Hopkins Texans WR
2012 Kevin Zeitler Bengals G
2011 Jimmy Smith Ravens DB
2010 Devin McCourty Patriots DB
2009 Donald Brown Colts RB
2008 Antoine Cason Chargers DB
2007 Robert Meachem Saints WR
2006 DeAngelo Williams Panthers RB
2005 Roddy White Falcons WR
2004 Jason Babin Texans DE
2003 Larry Johnson Chiefs RB

If you are only looking specifically at the 27th pick you are being intentionally dense. For example...Kelvin Benjamin went 28 last year, would have been available at 27...and he was an impact player.

 

[ravidubey]

If you are only looking specifically at the 27th pick you are being intentionally dense. For example...Kelvin Benjamin went 28 last year, would have been available at 27...and he was an impact player.

That's just a sampling without listing everyone.

IfKelvin Benjamin went 28 last year, would have been available at 27...and he was an impact player.

He was good and aided by being the only real WR on his team.

A RB would find a similar sweet situation in Dallas with a much higher ceiling. Couple that with RB's natural faster maturation than WRs and Romo's shortening career.

Sometimes you have to go for need and the need is huge. If Gordon falls, it's gotta be a slam dunk.

The Julius Jones' of the world aren't good enough. I want Stephen Jackson.

 

[Carp]

That's just a sampling without listing everyone.



He was good and aided by being the only real WR on his team.

A RB would find a similar sweet situation in Dallas with a much higher ceiling. Couple that with RB's natural faster maturation than WRs and Romo's shortening career.

Sometimes you have to go for need and the need is huge. If Gordon falls, it's gotta be a slam dunk.

The Julius Jones' of the world aren't good enough. I want Stephen Jackson.

Initially you were talking about impact players, not specifying the RB position. If we want to do that then we can point at guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill, Alfred Blue, Tre Mason, Lorenzo Taliaferro, Jerick McKinnon were available 2nd round and later.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Initially you were talking about impact players, not specifying the RB position. If we want to do that then we can point at guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill, Alfred Blue, Tre Mason, Lorenzo Taliaferro, Jerick McKinnon were available 2nd round and later.

Basically every 1000 yard rusher this past year except one was available in the second round or later. This talk of taking a RB in the first round is nonsense.

 

[Genghis Khan]

If a RB is the best player on the board at 27, I take him without hesitation.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If a RB is the best player on the board at 27, I take him without hesitation.

No RB should be best available at 27. We shouldn't have any RBs rated as first rounders.

 

[Carp]

If a RB is the best player on the board at 27, I take him without hesitation.

The only RB that fits that description would be Gordon...and I think I could find a player of equal value and greater need to us.

 

[ravidubey]

Basically every 1000 yard rusher this past year except one was available in the second round or later. This talk of taking a RB in the first round is nonsense.

1000 yards is not the standard. Not for a run-first, offense that threatens big plays from the running game on every play. That kind of offense features a 4.7 YPC elite runner can also pass-protect and catch.

Murray, Bell, McCoy, Lynch, Foster. That's what we need.

Of that group, only Murray and Foster would have been available at pick 60, and Murray because he was an injury risk. If anyone knew Foster would explode like he did, he'd have gone in the 1st round. McCoy was a 1st round talent who slipped. Lynch was a 1st rounder. Bell was a mid-second rounder.

Forsett might be on the list, but I'd like to see him repeat his 2014.

Initially you were talking about impact players, not specifying the RB position. If we want to do that then we can point at guys like Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill, Alfred Blue, Tre Mason, Lorenzo Taliaferro, Jerick McKinnon were available 2nd round and later.

You are right, I wanted impact but also the greatest improvement in Romo's limited time.

I don't want to force this guy from the draft, but if Gurley or Gordon fall to 27 I don't see how you pass.

Dallas is currently a bell-cow offense without a bell-cow.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

The only RB that fits that description would be Gordon...and I think I could find a player of equal value and greater need to us.

That's the thing. Everyone likes to throw out the term BPA but how in the hell is anyone defining what makes a RB a better prospect then a DE. Fact of the matter is elite RB's are much easier to find then elite DE's, so you can't put both positions on the same scale.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

McCoy was a 1st round talent who slipped. Lynch was a 1st rounder. Bell was a mid-second rounder.

Forsett might be on the list, but I'd like to see him repeat his 2014.

I don't want to force this guy from the draft, but if Gurley or Gordon fall to 27 I don't see how you pass.

Dallas is currently a bell-cow offense without a bell-cow.

I don't care if you think that a guy slipped to the second round. McCoy slipped to the second round for a reason. It wasn't as though everyone just forgot he was in the draft.

And dear god I have no idea why you would even mention Gurley in the first round at this point. He would be a massive reach at 27. The dude is recovering from blowing his knee out and frankly he doesn't look that overly fast to me in the first place. You'll probably look back at this draft and find out that someone like Ameer Abdullah in the third round ends up being the best player. Sort of like the year we drafted Felix Jones in the first round while Jamaal Charles went in the third round. It's a perfect example of why YOU SHOULDN'T DRAFT A BACK IN THE FIRST!

 

[Clay_Allison]

I don't care if you think that a guy slipped to the second round. McCoy slipped to the second round for a reason. It wasn't as though everyone just forgot he was in the draft.

And dear god I have no idea why you would even mention Gurley in the first round at this point. He would be a massive reach at 27. The dude is recovering from blowing his knee out and frankly he doesn't look that overly fast to me in the first place. You'll probably look back at this draft and find out that someone like Ameer Abdullah in the third round ends up being the best player. Sort of like the year we drafted Felix Jones in the first round while Jamaal Charles went in the third round. It's a perfect example of why YOU SHOULDN'T DRAFT A BACK IN THE FIRST!

Ray Rice was my favorite back from that draft. Hated the Jones pick, but the guy I wanted with our second #1 was Kenny Phillips.

 

[ravidubey]

It's a perfect example of why YOU SHOULDN'T DRAFT A BACK IN THE FIRST!

Any pick could be a bust, but value is value. Several 1st round backs have busted lately, but I think it's an anomaly.

I like the kid from Miami, in whatever round makes sense.

Yeah, Gurley's off the list.

 

[VA Cowboy]

No RB should be best available at 27. We shouldn't have any RBs rated as first rounders.

This sense makes no.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

This sense makes no.

Sure it does, position value matters. It's the same concept as why a FB should never be your best available in the first round. It's why you don't take a defense in the first round of your fantasy football draft. There is lots of supply and little demand in the NFL for RBs right now.

 

[Texas Ace]

Shit, if Gordon is sitting there at 27 (he won't) then you have to take him.

Position be damned.

 

[ravidubey]

Shit, if Gordon is sitting there at 27 (he won't) then you have to take him.

Position be damned.

Apparently some disagree.

 

[Carp]

Apparently some disagree.

Basically the NFL disagrees...not one RB taken in the first round the last two years...and in 2012 teams took Richardson, Martin, and Wilson...not exactly a murderers row.

Couple that with guys like Morris, Bell, Lacy, Ellington, Hill, Hyde, Mason, etc, being drafted after the first would indicate you don't need to take a RB in the first round.

 

[ravidubey]

Basically the NFL disagrees...not one RB taken in the first round the last two years...and in 2012 teams took Richardson, Martin, and Wilson...not exactly a murderers row.

Couple that with guys like Morris, Bell, Lacy, Ellington, Hill, Hyde, Mason, etc, being drafted after the first would indicate you don't need to take a RB in the first round.

After Ronnie Brown, Benson, Cadillac, DMac, Felix, Mendenhall, the 3 you mentioned I can understand the hesitation.

You just have to trust your scouting, because the second you get gun shy you let beasts like Le'Veon Bell and Eddie Lacy slide into the 2nd round. Dallas is nowhere near as lucky as Green Bay for whom franchise QBs fall to the 20's and franchise RBs fall to the 60's.

The Cowboys nailed Murray in the 3rd but whiffed terribly with Felix. Hopefully they got all that fixed and will evaluate Gordon and Gurley properly.

Maybe Gurly falls to their pick in the 3rd, and he's the next Murray.