Harvey: Case for Murray — it’s about value, not position

[Smitty]

If we sign Ingram I'm not gonna flip out. It's just not what I would do.

 

[Angrymesscan]

Stupid question is stupid.

Sorry it's been awhile since I spent time in a grade school playground; would the proper response be "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

[Angrymesscan]

We are talking about backups. They are evaluated in the preseason usually because the starters are determined already in training camp. Preseason competition is the system for thinning out the back up prospects.

And Williams was evaluated as not good enough, considering Williams an option right now is only based on draft pedigree.

 

[Simpleton]

Ingram is much better than Richardson, he actually had a very Murray-like year this season prior to us really committing to the run.

2013 Murray: 217 carries, 1,121 yards, 9 TD's
2014 Ingram: 226 caries, 964 yards, 9 TD's

Now, Murray is clearly better but if we let him walk and Peterson doesn't become available we could do alot worse than a backfield that consists of Ingram/high draft pick and some combination of Randle/Dunbar/Williams.

 

[ravidubey]

Ingram/high draft pick and some combination of Randle/Dunbar/Williams.

That would be outstanding.

Unfortunately Dallas probably wouldn't commit a high draft pick if they manage to sign Ingram.

I think they need to draft a back in the 1st or 2nd round.

The blueprint of this team features an elite RB at all times, so the draft should reflect that.

 

[data]

Hypothetically, at our low draft spot, with all things being equal, the BPAs are at RB, WR, RT, TE...who do you pick?

I'd go WR first, RT, TE, RB last

 

[Simpleton]

That would be outstanding.

Unfortunately Dallas probably wouldn't commit a high draft pick if they manage to sign Ingram.

I think they need to draft a back in the 1st or 2nd round.

The blueprint of this team features an elite RB at all times, so the draft should reflect that.

I agree that our blueprint should rely heavily on the running game and having talent back there is a huge part of that of course, even if it isn't a guy you're paying 8 million a year like Murray will probably get. The fact that we have an elite OL means we don't have to bend over for Murray but it also shouldn't mean that we just throw whatever back there and think it'll work.

If we let Murray go I want us to spend a high pick on a RB whether we sign Peterson, Ingram or whoever. It doesn't necessarily have to be a 1st, but no lower than a 3rd. The point of the free agent will be to give the rookie time to acclimate while getting maybe 65-70% of the workload for a year or two before turning it over to the draft pick, in an ideal world of course.

If we take a guy like Gordon in the 1st though I'd pretty much expect them to start right away.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

That would be outstanding.

Unfortunately Dallas probably wouldn't commit a high draft pick if they manage to sign Ingram.

I think they need to draft a back in the 1st or 2nd round.

The blueprint of this team features an elite RB at all times, so the draft should reflect that.

Go through the NFL and look at the RBs. How many of the top rushers were first rounders. You love doing this with QBs, so why not RBs.

Murray - 3rd Round
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd Round
McCoy - 2nd Round
Lynch - 1st Round
Forsett - 7th Round
Foster - Undrafted
Lacy - 2nd Round
Hill - 2nd Round
Gore - 3rd Round
Lamar Miller - 4th Round
Alfred Morris -6th Round
Matt Forte - 2nd Round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd Round

So basically only 1 1000 yard rusher last year is a former first round pick and that was almost a decade ago. So why in the hell would anyone be spending first round picks on RBs? Hell a lot of the guys weren't even second rounders.

 

[Cotton]

Hypothetically, at our low draft spot, with all things being equal, the BPAs are at RB, WR, RT, TE...who do you pick?

I'd go WR first, RT, TE, RB last

I go RT.

 

[Cotton]

And, like I said in another thread, I make that phone call to Ingram. I think he would be a good piece to add.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Hypothetically, at our low draft spot, with all things being equal, the BPAs are at RB, WR, RT, TE...who do you pick?

I'd go WR first, RT, TE, RB last

I'd go RT, WR, TE and then RB. Honestly though I don't see a way that a D-lineman or Safety isn't at least close in the discussion. Hell I'd rather take a first round CB then a RB late in the first.

 

[Cotton]

Cowboys might want to think twice about their power back
January, 19, 2015

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com

IRVING, Texas -- The NFL is a passing league. At least that's what we've been told.

Too often judgments are made off of what this team or that team did to make it to a Super Bowl or win a Super Bowl, as if they possessed a magic formula for success.

Some of it comes down to luck (not Andrew). Some if comes down to coaching. Some of it comes down to skill.

It still takes passing to put up points, but maybe the running game is more important than many believe.

In Sundays' NFC Championship Game, Seattle Seahawks running back Marshawn Lynch changed the tenor of the game in the second half and finished with 157 yards on 25 carries and gave his team a late lead in the fourth quarter with a rushing touchdown.

LeGarrett Blount had 30 carries for 148 yards and three touchdowns in the New England Patriots win against the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship Game.

Lynch, 5-foot-11, 215 pounds, runs as hard as any back in the league. Blount, a 6-feet, 250 pounds, brings the juice in the Patriots' running game.

Before the Dallas Cowboys say goodbye to DeMarco Murray, 6-0, 217 pounds, in free agency, they need to understand the draw of the power back.

As good as the Cowboys' offensive line was in 2014 Murray made a good portion of those 1,845 yards on his own. The Cowboys' fortunes changed because of their ability to run the ball. They brought a balance.

The New England offense changed when they brought Blount back. They at least had the threat of the run to help Tom Brady throw the ball. The Seahawks are a running team that mixed in the pass.

The Cowboys' offense down the stretch had the perfect balance. If teams wanted to stop Murray, Tony Romo beat them with his arm. If teams wanted to slow down the passing game, they could take advantage with the run.

Jerry Jones said the Cowboys will be challenged in keeping Dez Bryant and Murray, but that would only be by choice. They can afford both. The question is if they want to pay a running back.

Jason Garrett has publicly stated how he feels about Murray. He talked about him in tones normally reserved for Jason Witten.

With Romo and Witten down the stretch in their careers, can the Cowboys take the chance of trying to get to a Super Bowl without Murray?

If the Cowboys were watching Sunday, they saw what a running game means.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

If the Cowboys were watching Sunday, they saw what a running game means.

What I actually take from this article is something I agree with and that is we need a punishing RB on this roster next year. I actually like Randle and think he has potential to put up some very nice numbers but he isn't a power back. We need to make sure we have a guy on our roster next year that can drag guys for a yard on 3rd and 1 to get the first down. Murray did do that very well. I however wouldn't mind a specialty RB for that very purpose as opposed to an 8 mil a year workhorse. Hell guys like Blount seem to always be on the street.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Cowboys might want to think twice about their power back
January, 19, 2015

By Todd Archer | ESPNDallas.com

IRVING, Texas -- The NFL is a passing league. At least that's what we've been told.

Too often judgments are made off of what this team or that team did to make it to a Super Bowl or win a Super Bowl, as if they possessed a magic formula for success.

Some of it comes down to luck (not Andrew). Some if comes down to coaching. Some of it comes down to skill.

It still takes passing to put up points, but maybe the running game is more important than many believe.


LeGarrett Blount had 30 carries for 148 yards and three touchdowns in the New England Patriots win against the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship Game.

He makes a good case for not resigning Murray to a huge contract and instead looking for a viable cheap RB in FA or off the street.

 

[L.T. Fan]

And Williams was evaluated as not good enough, considering Williams an option right now is only based on draft pedigree.

That's right.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

And Williams was evaluated as not good enough, considering Williams an option right now is only based on draft pedigree.

To be fair I have no idea what they evaluated to think Dunbar deserved the roster spot over Williams. I understand only wanting to keep 3 RBs on your roster and Randle proved to be a pretty good runner this year. I'm still not sure why in the hell we kept Dunbar on the roster and held him out of preseason.

 

[Clay_Allison]

To be fair I have no idea what they evaluated to think Dunbar deserved the roster spot over Williams. I understand only wanting to keep 3 RBs on your roster and Randle proved to be a pretty good runner this year. I'm still not sure why in the hell we kept Dunbar on the roster and held him out of preseason.

That was a head scratcher for me too. It just seems to go back to Garrett loving to have "weapons" like extra TEs and scat backs, but never wanting to use them. Dunbar made two plays all season (both in Seattle). Would have been better to have another running back that could actually run.

 

[ravidubey]

Go through the NFL and look at the RBs. How many of the top rushers were first rounders. You love doing this with QBs, so why not RBs.

Murray - 3rd Round
Le'Veon Bell - 2nd Round
McCoy - 2nd Round
Lynch - 1st Round
Forsett - 7th Round
Foster - Undrafted
Lacy - 2nd Round
Hill - 2nd Round
Gore - 3rd Round
Lamar Miller - 4th Round
Alfred Morris -6th Round
Matt Forte - 2nd Round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd Round

So basically only 1 1000 yard rusher last year is a former first round pick and that was almost a decade ago. So why in the hell would anyone be spending first round picks on RBs? Hell a lot of the guys weren't even second rounders.

First of all since the NFL changed after 2005 or so there remain only a few contending teams built around running the ball anymore-- Dallas along with the Eagles, Ravens, Steelers, 49ers, and Seahawks. Maybe the Saints and Panthers, and now the Bills too. This NFL-wide de-emphasis artificially pushes talented RB's into lower draft slots alot like the way tweener OLBs were before 3-4 defenses became the rage.

The 2008 draft was the deepest I can remember at the position, and guys lasting til the late 2nd and 3rd rounds would have gone much earlier in other drafts, and that also pollutes these numbers a bit.

The Cowboys had McCoy rated as a 1st round talent, and "The Deemphasis" slid him the 2nd. Gore was one of the top prospects of all time until his college injuries which dropped his draft status-- and he was a steal in the 3rd round. Bell, Rice, and McCoy were 2nd rounders, but they were not late second rounders which is what Dallas will have to use. Charles is a fine player, though I feel not powerful enough to be a sole bell cow type RB to last five years. It's outrageous that Eddie Lacy fell into the 2nd, but that's the state of the NFL.

The Forsetts and Millers of the world can pinch hit in a given season and the Morris's can run well enough from a pistol (though maybe not pass block or catch the ball), but would you have banked on it? Do you think the Ravens will bank on Forsett long term? Or that Washington views Morris as a true franchise player independent of a gimmicky offense?

Dallas tried to pay a college part-timer taken in the 4th round like he was a full time stud, and they got burned for it. They bought into the hype that another part-timer was a 1st round talent, and they got burned for it. They need a sure thing, and likely a sure thing in the NFL was probably a sure thing at the college level too and not some part-timer like Barber or Felix.

The Cowboys' 2nd rounder is all the way at the bottom. Sure Dallas can get a fine back there, but can they get a lynchpin franchise back to ride into the playoffs year after year? A guy who can block, catch, and has the toughness to play 3 downs? Maybe, though I'd say their chances were far improved if they use their bottom 1st round pick.

Last thing, I think the trend is going to reverse itself and more teams will return to leaning on RBs to help their QB's out. Anyone who watched the effect on Romo can't ignore the benefits. That's going to drive the cost back up.

 

[Carp]

Good lord.

 

[Cotton]

Good lord.

Ravid really likes to be thorough.