MLB Chatter Thread

[Carp]

Randy Johnson, Craig Biggio, John Smoltz, and Pedro go in...Piazza will get in, but he should get in ahead of Biggio. He redefined the C position offensively.

 

[Deuce]

Bullshit that Rock Raines remains on the outside looking in.

 

[Carp]

I am surprised by some of the voting...for instance, Jeff Kent with only 14%. He was one of the better run producers for a long time from the 2B position.

 

[Texas Ace]

I am surprised by some of the voting...for instance, Jeff Kent with only 14%. He was one of the better run producers for a long time from the 2B position.

You think some of that has to do with his relationship with the media?

He had a reputation for being quite the asshole.

 

[Carp]

You think some of that has to do with his relationship with the media?

He had a reputation for being quite the asshole.

Probably, but it should have nothing to do with it.

 

[Tony D]

The Hall of good strikes again. Biggio. Rewarded for being pretty good for a long time. I'll take a great player for shorter time than a good player for a long time. I guess because you get to 3000 hits its a lock even if it takes 20 years to do it. Sure he did it at two positions, props. Was he ever the best at those 2 positions?

We had this argument last year regarding him. I believe the hall is for the greats. Too many pretty goods getting in for me.

Pedro is a lock.

Big Unit is a lock.

Smoltz deserves it.

Piazza for crying out loud should be in before Biggio. That's a joke.

I could be talked into Biggio, but no Piazza? Bullshit

 

[Carp]

Total vote breakdown, thanks to bbwaa.com (above 75 percent needed for election, with below five percent meaning the player falls off the ballot)

Johnson, 97.3 percent
Martinez, 91.1
Smoltz, 82.9
Biggio, 82.7

-----

Mike Piazza, 69.9
Jeff Bagwell, 55.7
Tim Raines, 55
Curt Schilling, 39.2
Roger Clemens, 37.5
Barry Bonds, 36.8
Lee Smith, 30.2
Edgar Martinez, 27
Alan Trammell, 25.1
Mike Mussina, 24.6
Jeff Kent, 14
Fred McGriff, 12.9
Larry Walker, 11.8
Gary Sheffield, 11.7
Mark McGwire, 10
Don Mattingly, 9.1
Sammy Sosa, 6.6
Nomar Garciaparra, 5.5

-----

Carlos Delgado, 3.8
Troy Percival, 0.7
Aaron Boone, 0.4
Tom Gordon, 0.4
Darin Erstad, 0.2
Rich Aurillia, 0
Tony Clark, 0
Jermaine Dye, 0
Cliff Floyd, 0
Brian Giles, 0
Eddie Guardado, 0
Jason Schmidt, 0

Mattingly also falls off the ballot, as this was his 15th and final chance.

 

[Kbrown]

F the haters.

 

[Carp]

Biggio getting in is deserved, but Piazza was more deserving. Playing C and hitting like he did was amazing. There were a few bats back in the day...Frank Thomas, Sheff, Walker, Piazza, etc...that you just hated to face.

 

[Kbrown]

I would agree about Piazza, frankly. Bagwell also is more deserving than Biggio, tbh. I thought that this vote might show Bagwell as having a good shot next year. Now I don't know.

 

[Carp]

Biggio is deserving...he was outstanding as a run producer and was a 4 time Gold Glover. I would take him over Bagwell.

 

[dallen]

Mike Piazza, 69.9
Jeff Bagwell, 55.7
Tim Raines, 55
Curt Schilling, 39.2
Roger Clemens, 37.5
Barry Bonds, 36.8
Lee Smith, 30.2
Edgar Martinez, 27

I would put all of those players in before Biggio. I don't get it

 

[Tony D]

Again, we had the discussion regarding Biggio last year. I think the Hall of Fame is for the all-time greats. It used to be that way. For some reason it's now become watered down with really good, not great players. If that's the way it is then Biggio is in because he was really good.

If his career ends after 14 or 15 seasons instead of 20 is he on the Hall of Fame today? No way. So because he hung on for 5 more years he's a Hall of Famer? That's what happened. He was a below average player those last 6 years, but because he "compiled" the numbers he's in. I'm not a believer in the longevity thing

A lot of guys were better players than him, but didn't play 20 seasons and compile numbers. But when you look at their 8-10 best seasons compared to him they're the better player. His teammate Bagwell for one should be in ahead of him, but he didn't play 20 years. So if you're a pretty good player and hang around for 20 years you're a Hall of Famer now.

After the last 10 years or so not a big deal to make the Hall of Fame with the guys who are getting in.

 

[Kbrown]

I will just leave it to what Jayson Stark wrote the other day (and he never even brings up what he brought to the table defensively):

Craig Biggio: This man got 3,060 hits and missed getting elected by a mere two votes last year, in his second time on the ballot. So you'd think the third time ought to get him to Induction Day, right? Well, if there's still any doubt Biggio belongs, consider this:

He's one of only three players in history who spent most of their career at second base and wound up with over 3,000 hits. Eddie Collins and Nap Lajoie were the other two. And don't cue the videotape because neither has played a game in more than eight decades. ... Biggio also thumped more doubles (668) than any other right-handed hitter in the history of baseball. Yeah, really. ... And he's the only player in the past 102 seasons who ever had a 50-double, 50-steal season. Yeah, really. ... OK, so he grades out better in the counting stats than the slash lines. But how do you ignore his power/speed/leadoff talents in a career in which he bounced through three premium positions (catcher/second base/center field), mostly because his team needed him to do that bouncing? I sure can't.

 

[Texas Ace]

Bagwell will never get in.

He's tied to the steroid era and there are better players than him who aren't getting in for the same reasons.

 

[Tony D]

So he gets in for staying healthy 29 seasons? That's what it takes now obviously. Be really good and play a long time. Also, if your a good guy that helps, too. No need to be great anymore.


He compiled numbers. Look at each season independently and how many of those are HOF worthy? A few. That's it.

He's in now. Yes, was really good. Never dominated game. Never close to an MVP. Wasn't even best player on his team and the other guy isn't in. It's turned into the Hall of Really Good

 

[Tony D]

Bagwell will never get in.

He's tied to the steroid era and there are better players than him who aren't getting in for the same reasons.

Why isn't Biggio tied to steroid era? I remember reading something about him and steroids. Could explain why he played so long. Why just Bagwell?

Everybody that played the last 20 years should be looked at suspiciously. And I'll include my Yankees Jeter, Mo, whoever. Nobody would shock me.

 

[Texas Ace]

Why isn't Biggio tied to steroid era? I remember reading something about him and steroids. Could explain why he played so long. Why just Bagwell?

Everybody that played the last 20 years should be looked at suspiciously. And I'll include my Yankees Jeter, Mo, whoever. Nobody would shock me.

Right or wrong, the only guys who are tied to it are the ones with the big power numbers who also looked the part.

Biggie was neither a power hitter nor a big guy. Griffey's numbers were impressive, but he never bulked up so it's like he gets a free pass.

 

[Tony D]

Steroids not only help with power, but durability. I wouldn't be shocked that Biggio used. But if he didn't he's still not a HOFer in my mind.

Did Piazza use? I'd have to say yes. 62rd pick. No sign of power in HS or college or first few years of minors. Then out of nowhere hits 29 when 22 in minors and then becomes greatest offensive catcher of all time. I get it guys develop power as they get older, but it is fishy. You have to put him in though.

 

[dallen]

Why isn't Biggio tied to steroid era? I remember reading something about him and steroids. Could explain why he played so long. Why just Bagwell?

Everybody that played the last 20 years should be looked at suspiciously. And I'll include my Yankees Jeter, Mo, whoever. Nobody would shock me.

That's why I don't think steroid users should be excluded. No one knows how many used and never got caught. The entire generation is suspect. Let the great ones in with a note that they played in the steroid era. Excluding them helps no one.