Watkins: Anthony Spencer on how these Cowboys differ from 2009 version

[Cotton]

People are now choking on the blue Kool Aid.

Let's focus on the number of times the 2009 defense choked at the end of games when the offense got us the lead versus this one.

Spoiler: This defense wins.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Let's focus on the number of times the 2009 defense choked at the end of games when the offense got us the lead versus this one.

Spoiler: This defense wins.

How many times did they choke?

Because I remember the offense coming up short more than the defense, the Redskins and Broncos game I remember off the top of my head.

Out of the six losses only 2 teams scored over 20 points and that was the Giants and we know Romo threw multiple interceptions in those games.

 

[Cotton]

How many times did they choke?

Because I remember the offense coming up short more than the defense, the Redskins and Broncos game I remember off the top of my head.

Out of the six losses only 2 teams scored over 20 points and that was the Giants and we know Romo threw multiple interceptions in those games.

I'm not going to go back game by game but they folded plenty that year.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I'm not going to go back game by game but they folded plenty that year.

Of course not but I did and it did not happen consistently.

But hey never let facts get in the way.

 

[Cotton]

Of course not but I did and it did not happen consistently.

But hey never let facts get in the way.

Are you watching the games?

 

[shane]

I like the character of this defense more than 2009. They had some talent, but lots of gutless and/or too passive guys on the defense to ever be relied upon. But the talent is lacking for sure right now. I just feel like the culture has changed this year, but maybe I'm drinking the kool aid.

 

[Clay_Allison]

I like the character of this defense more than 2009. They had some talent, but lots of gutless and/or too passive guys on the defense to ever be relied upon. But the talent is lacking for sure right now. I just feel like the culture has changed this year, but maybe I'm drinking the kool aid.

They had a shitty play caller on offense too that didn't run the ball or know how to control the clock even with a decent offensive line.

 

[fortsbest]

They had a shitty play caller on offense too that didn't run the ball or know how to control the clock even with a decent offensive line.

Damnit, Where's the popcorn eating emoticon when you want it!

 

[townsend]

They had a shitty play caller on offense too that didn't run the ball or know how to control the clock even with a decent offensive line.

It wasn't just the play calling. It was the design of the offense and the feature back. Barber was the 3rd (tee hee) best back on our team that year but he had more carries than Felix and Tashard combined (with less yards to show for it).

The was one particularly bad drive in our victory over the Redskins, where we had 2nd and short and ran Barber directly into Albert Haynseworth until the Cowboys turned over on downs. We also did a lot of swing passes to Barber that ended 2 lines behind the line of scrimmage because he had the acceleration of a freight train.

That affected our redzone efficiency too. Combined with our shitbag kicker there were a lot of long drives that ended in no points.

 

[Jiggyfly]

I like the character of this defense more than 2009. They had some talent, but lots of gutless and/or too passive guys on the defense to ever be relied upon. But the talent is lacking for sure right now. I just feel like the culture has changed this year, but maybe I'm drinking the kool aid.

Nobody is disputing the culture has changed but that 2009 defense was very good and the numbers showed they came up big throughout the season.

If we had that defense this year we would be favorites to win it all.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Yeah, I'm with ravid. I would rather have this defense than 2009's.

I'd rather have the '09 defense with Marinelli and the attitude of the '14 defense.

 

[Cotton]

I'd rather have the '09 defense with Marinelli and the attitude of the '14 defense.

Yeah, but you can't have both.

 

[ravidubey]

Yeah, I'm with ravid. I would rather have this defense than 2009's.

I already posted if I had to choose, then it would reluctantly be 2009 because of the superior talent.

But 2014 has more heart, is deeper, plays more consistently, is better coached, and gets more turnovers.

Sure they didn't shut Washington out, but they forced turnovers and scored points themselves instead. And no matter what anyone says this 2014 Washington offense is far better than the untalented 2009 version that ended the season and had given up on top of things. I was at that game in the cold thanking the lord Washington not only sucked but was mailing it in.

 

[townsend]

So how is ending the 2009 season with the only consecutive shutouts in Cowboys history gutless? The 09 defense was GREAT. Obviously if Sidney Rice, Brett Favre and, Adrian Peterson are left on the field long enough they're going to start putting up points. But the defense wouldn't have folded if the offense hadn't failed to play at a professional level.

 

[ravidubey]

So how is ending the 2009 season with the only consecutive shutouts in Cowboys history gutless? The 09 defense was GREAT.

Yes, the Philly shut out was terrific. The Washington shutout was less impressive, given the retardation level of the opposition. The defense held fine, and we can also thank the level of competition.

Obviously if Sidney Rice, Brett Favre and, Adrian Peterson are left on the field long enough they're going to start putting up points. But the defense wouldn't have folded if the offense hadn't failed to play at a professional level.

Dallas won TOP in that game, BTW.

I get it. The Cowboys OL was a sieve that really screwed things up for us. Marc Columbo and Doug Free got abused and Tony Romo seemed to fumble away every sack.

But there is no excuse for the Dallas defense making Sidney Rice look like a Hall of Famer. That part was completely gutless, and it's what I remember most.

Good as that defense was, it was overrated. People are acting like it some kind of all-timer laced Doomsday IV or V. No way. Not stout without safety help and poor in coverage vs. quality QB's.

 

[townsend]

Yes, the Philly shut out was terrific. The Washington shutout was less impressive, given the retardation level of the opposition. The defense held fine, and we can also thank the level of competition.



Dallas won TOP in that game, BTW.

I get it. The Cowboys OL was a sieve that really screwed things up for us. Marc Columbo and Doug Free got abused and Tony Romo seemed to fumble away every sack.

But there is no excuse for the Dallas defense making Sidney Rice look like a Hall of Famer. That part was completely gutless, and it's what I remember most.

Good as that defense was, it was overrated. People are acting like it some kind of all-timer laced Doomsday IV or V. No way. Not stout without safety help and poor in coverage vs. quality QB's.

Obviously the defense was flawed. It wasn't the 02 Bucs or 85 Bears. But it was a championship caliber defense. Sidney Rice isn't the greatest WR, but Brett was one of the best QBs at making his WRs look great. And 09 was one of Brett's best career years. Sidney Rice was just playing his Javon Walker that year. I remember the long TD to Rice and Newman was in good coverage for it. That really was a play that couldn't have been prevented.

 

[ravidubey]

I remember the long TD to Rice and Newman was in good coverage for it. That really was a play that couldn't have been prevented.

Sensabaugh was running stride for stride and didn't even contest the pass, so yeah it could have been prevented. Spencer or Ware got some edge pressure, but there was nothing up the gut allowing Favre to step up and take a shot to the sideline.

This undersized softness in the middle was the critical flaw in the defense. Ratliff/Keef/James/Sensabaugh didn't terrify anyone. I watched too many teams take Ratliff apart inside.

While outside players get the splashy headlines, I'm more convinced than ever that great defenses must be strong inside-out and not outside-in.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The 2007-2009 defenses were really good, but they could have been elite with a real NT.

 

[ravidubey]

The 2007-2009 defenses were really good, but they could have been elite with a real NT.

It was made worse by pedestrian ILB's and safeties. Good, but not great.

 

[Clay_Allison]

It was made worse by pedestrian ILB's and safeties. Good, but not great.

I think the ILBs would have been more effective if the line was better at keeping blockers off of them.