Morning After: Dare to dream - Cowboys’ Super Bowl is a possibility

[Cowboysrock55]

You apparently didn't read the part about how we didn't run more in 2012 because we couldn't. And that the current commitment to the run isn't a result of the coaches "finally" choosing to run, but rather now being able to.

Is there a reason why he glossed over 2013...

 

[Jiggyfly]

You apparently didn't read the part about how we didn't run more in 2012 because we couldn't.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

My initial point was you cherry picking what he says and then assigning his opinion to Parcell levels of expertise when it fits.

Sturm has been highly critical of Garret as a play caller and his decision to abandon the run you know the same things most critics of Garrett have said, yet you ignore that to zero in on this one tidbit.

We have not run very well over the last two weeks, but you know what we have at least kept it as a threat something Garrett refused to do.

 

[Jiggyfly]

Is there a reason why he glossed over 2013...

Exactly.

 

[ravidubey]

He definitely glosses it over when he mentioned 2011 and 2012 and skips 2013.

A 7.7 YPC average is not a knife in a gun fight. It's a fully loaded UZI.

 

[L.T. Fan]

You apparently didn't read the part about how we didn't run more in 2012 because we couldn't. And that the current commitment to the run isn't a result of the coaches "finally" choosing to run, but rather now being able to.

I think Murray's average has been consistent since he joined the team. They just didn't use him as much until this season.

 

[Smitty]

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

It explains why we abandoned the run to historic levels in previous years.

Personnel, mostly. Not stubbornness, not stupidity, not poor coaching.

My initial point was you cherry picking what he says and then assigning his opinion to Parcell levels of expertise when it fits.

I'm not cherry picking anything. It's a valid explanation of why we ran it so few times those years.

Sturm has been highly critical of Garret as a play caller

Yeah, so has everyone. I've said that Linehan is better than Garrett as a playcaller too.

and his decision to abandon the run you know the same things most critics of Garrett have said, yet you ignore that to zero in on this one tidbit.

His decision to abandon the run is fully explained by Sturm in this very article. It's not cherry picking, it's you misunderstanding causality.

We have not run very well over the last two weeks, but you know what we have at least kept it as a threat something Garrett refused to do.

The running game was not a threat in 2011 and 2012 at all. Teams are stopping it now because they are putting 8 and 9 in the box. Big difference.

 

[Smitty]

I think Murray's average has been consistent since he joined the team.

Prime example of misleading stats. Murray and the rushing attack is ten times as deadly this year as last year, and a hundred times as in years before that.

0% chance we can roll to a 12-4 record behind the running game in 2011-2013. Not possible.

The best you could have done would be situationally to run the ball more -- like in terms of bleeding the clock out against Detroit or Green Bay when there were bad in-game decisions.

But the run couldn't have been the #1 option like it is now behind Phil Costa, Mackenzie Bernadeau, Nate Livings and turnstile Doug Free. Insults the intelligence to even imply it.

 

[Jiggyfly]

It explains why we abandoned the run to historic levels in previous years.

Personnel, mostly. Not stubbornness, not stupidity, not poor coaching.



I'm not cherry picking anything. It's a valid explanation of why we ran it so few times those years.



Yeah, so has everyone. I've said that Linehan is better than Garrett as a playcaller too.



His decision to abandon the run is fully explained by Sturm in this very article. It's not cherry picking, it's you misunderstanding causality.



The running game was not a threat in 2011 and 2012 at all. Teams are stopping it now because they are putting 8 and 9 in the box. Big difference.

And none of this has anything to do with you pounding your chest with this one Sturm quote and then acting like he breaks down every game tape.

And it also does not address you ignoring his critiques of Garrett overall. Like I said cherry picking.

Anyway I am not going down this rabbit hole with you.

Good day sir!

 

[Cotton]

So, basically, Smitty's arguments boils down to Martin is the difference between 8-8 and 12-4.

 

[Smitty]

And it also does not address you ignoring his critiques of Garrett overall. Like I said cherry picking.

I have never, at any time, said there are not valid critiques of Garrett.

All I have said is that the criticism against him is waaaay overblown, and that his lack of dedication to the run game is PRIMARILY personnel based, or put better, personnel-influenced, much moreso than him not wanting to run the ball. He is pass happy, sure, but 330-350 runs a year is historically bad, and that is because of not trusting his line going into the season. The whole offseason, the plans they are formulating is based on that lack of trust for the OL.

For those who think Garrett would be abandoning the run now that the line is established, and are trying to say the difference is COMPLETELY Linehan and not at all based on personnel, read this sentence:

People sometimes confuse this issue by saying the coaching staff finally committed to the run and ask “why didn’t they do that more in 2011 or 2012?” They didn’t because they knew they were taking a knife to a gun-fight.

So.... to sum up.... is it reasonable to believe the only reason that Garrett didn't run the ball in 2011 and 2012 is because he refused to commit to it?

People sometimes confuse this issue by saying the coaching staff finally committed to the run and ask “why didn’t they do that more in 2011 or 2012?” They didn’t because they knew they were taking a knife to a gun-fight.

And is it reasonable to believe that with the OL able to run block this successfully, that if Garrett was calling plays again he would return to running the ball 350 times a year?

People sometimes confuse this issue by saying the coaching staff finally committed to the run and ask “why didn’t they do that more in 2011 or 2012?” They didn’t because they knew they were taking a knife to a gun-fight.

No, it's not. If you think the coaching staff wasn't calling plays with their hands tied in those years, you are confused (and wrong).

The reason we ran the ball so little those years was because we couldn't, NOT because of lack of commitment to it. Couldn't be more clear. End of story.

 

[Smitty]

So, basically, Smitty's arguments boils down to Martin is the difference between 8-8 and 12-4.

The difference between Martin and Bernadeau, the improvement of Frederick (sophomore leap), and the improvement of Leary (second year as a starter); a training camp/offseason seeing those guys develop and excel makes a huge difference and having that factor into your gameplans heading into the season. Last year you went into the year with a rookie center, a 1st year starting undrafted FA who went through ups and downs all year long, and a journeyman. Don't forget, there was legitimate question entering camp this year if Leary or Bernadeau would win the other guard spot... a question that existed because Leary was not any better than Bernadeau last year... and was answered as soon as camp began because of Leary's improvement.

This year you have near Pro Bowl play from all three spots. It's marked improvement and significant leap in performance at 60% of the OL spot. Additionally, Smith-Leary-Frederick and Free were all returning.... continuity with competent players factors in as well.

That has made a huge difference in the ability to run the ball.

Couple that with the improvement Marinelli has coaxed out of the defense, yeah, that does explain a couple extra wins.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Prime example of misleading stats. Murray and the rushing attack is ten times as deadly this year as last year, and a hundred times as in years before that.

0% chance we can roll to a 12-4 record behind the running game in 2011-2013. Not possible.

The best you could have done would be situationally to run the ball more -- like in terms of bleeding the clock out against Detroit or Green Bay when there were bad in-game decisions.

But the run couldn't have been the #1 option like it is now behind Phil Costa, Mackenzie Bernadeau, Nate Livings and turnstile Doug Free. Insults the intelligence to even imply it.

That's your hypothesis but it's as much an uncertainty that the mindset of Garrett was to throw the ball. You can only make that claim but you cannot substantiate it since the run was virtually abandoned.

 

[data]

I have agreed with schmitty for the most part here, clarifying that we shouldve ran more when holding certain double digit leads. dont see how this can be disputed.

 

[L.T. Fan]

I have agreed with schmitty for the most part here, clarifying that we shouldve ran more when holding certain double digit leads. dont see how this can be disputed.

The rap on the OL in the years in question was that they could not protect Romo. I am not familiar with any claims they couldn't run block.

 

[Smitty]

The rap on the OL in the years in question was that they could not protect Romo. I am not familiar with any claims they couldn't run block.

Aside from the fact that it was my claim, it's also Bob's claim here.

Other than that, your memory must be faulty. The OL was much worse at run blocking those years than it was protecting Romo.

That's your hypothesis

It really is not. This line could not run block to save their lives for years. We were completely incapable of running inside the 20 for probably 4 straight years.

On top of that, too often handoffs resulted in loss of yards -- there simply was no way to milk a drive on the ground because loss of yardage downs were too numerous to overcome.

It was awful. Not sure how you don't remember it.

You can only make that claim but you cannot substantiate it since the run was virtually abandoned.

Absurd.

This is why I argued the Garrett abandoning the run nonsense for years so adamantly. Because now we have a situation where people's actual recollections is that the line was fine but it was the coaching that was the problem.... not even close.

 

[L.T. Fan]

Aside from the fact that it was my claim, it's also Bob's claim here.

Other than that, your memory must be faulty. The OL was much worse at run blocking those years than it was protecting Romo.

How do you explain the running average then.

 

[bbgun]

gonna be a replay of 2009: beat a so-so team at home, get crushed on the road, then give the medicore HC an extension

 

[Smitty]

How do you explain the running average then.

Nobody paid attention to it because we couldn't sustain it.

In any situation remotely resembling running downs, we were incapable.

It's why the draw became a staple of our running game. We had to trick teams into thinking we were passing.

A quick view of the box scores from 2011 and 2012 will reveal a lot of days like this for Murrary: 18 carries for 38 yards, 16 carries for 40 yards, 11 carries for 24 yards, etc.

It's not like he was picking up 5 yards a clip, and we just decided not to use him. He wasn't doing anything with the carries.... so he didn't get many.

How he had some big games that boosted his average but by and large most weeks were under 4 ypc.

 

[data]

How do you explain the running average then.

how do you explain our passing average then?

 

[L.T. Fan]

how do you explain our passing average then?

The ratio was heavy on passing attempts. The rushing average was about 4 yards per carry average over a period from 2010.