Sturm: Garrett Overview - 6 Years of Data

[townsend]

Well, for one, says Bob Sturm. Despite the fact that he acknowledged, as I do, that the game plans were not great, the thing he says first is "YOU MUST UPGRADE THE OL SO THE COACH CAN TRUST THEM TO DO BASIC THINGS."

Go write it on a chalkboard until it makes sense to you, dude. We can't run certain things because the OL is not capable of executing certain tasks. Every single coach is lessened in effectiveness when this is the case.

OR MAYBE THE LINE THAT PLAYED WELL IN 06 AND 07 WITHERED UNDER GARRETT'S POOR SCHEMING, AND YOU'RE ONLY WILLING TO LOOK AT IT FROM A SINGLE NARROW PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

The line is untalented, so was the line in 06. But somehow the teams before Garrett took the reigns had consistently scoring offenses, with a strong rushing attack.

In 08 it turned volatile. The good line was bad somehow. After just one year Garrett COULDN'T TRUST THESE DOLTS TO EXECUTE HIS PERFECT SCHEME.

Your premise that if we can't have a hall of fame coach we might as well keep Garrett is absurd, even the Lovies, Grudens, and Whisenhunts bring something to the table. They've had measurable success under less than ideal circumstances.

On the other hand, Garrett (by your own admission) has struggled with game planning. He has been awful managing he clock, and getting plays in. He's struggling with coaching 101.

 

[Genghis Khan]

 

[NoDak]

Ayuh.

 

[Smitty]

OR MAYBE THE LINE THAT PLAYED WELL IN 06 AND 07 WITHERED UNDER GARRETT'S POOR SCHEMING, AND YOU'RE ONLY WILLING TO LOOK AT IT FROM A SINGLE NARROW PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

No, that isn't what happened. A 2007 line featured much better talent than was on it this past season. Not surprisingly, the offense was the worst yet. Coincidence that the offense was better with a better OL? According to your dumbass theory, yes.

By the way... since we're talking about "honesty"... it would be nice and non-hypocritical of you to acknowledge that this is the case, since you asked me "says who" and I gave you an answer of who says.

Instead of pretending it's a lunatic theory like you want to do.

The line is untalented, so was the line in 06. But somehow the teams before Garrett took the reigns had consistently scoring offenses, with a strong rushing attack.

I am astounded you people have the balls to say I am being dishonest after this bit of bullshit. Yeah, Andre Gurode, Kyle Kosier, Leonard Davis and Marc Colombo were just as bad in 2007 as Livings, Costa/Cook, Bernadeau, and Free in 2012.

GFTO.

Who the fuck cares what Parcells did in 2006? Parcells was an all-timer. No one is saying Garrett is on that level.

Your premise that if we can't have a hall of fame coach we might as well keep Garrett is absurd, even the Lovies, Grudens, and Whisenhunts bring something to the table. They've had measurable success under less than ideal circumstances.

Maybe once upon a time. Lovie Smith has proven he no longer has the capability to deliver a team with talent flaws to the postseason. His 1/6 track record the past 6 seasons proves this.

So that puts him roughly in the same ability grouping as Garrett going forward, ie, not able to get this current roster to the playoffs. So winning 8 games versus 9 games versus winning 7 games or whatever means nothing. They are both average coaches who will not improve the performance of this team while the OL remains in the state it is in.

I value the stability of one regime over swapping deck chairs on the Titanic. Find me a truly good coach and I'll be all for it. I've already said I'd very much support a guy like Rex Ryan over Garrett.

Plus... if you bring in Lovie Smith, well, now he will get 3-4 years to prove himself. Whereas Garrett can be dropped at any time if a big name like Payton were to shake free.

Bringing in another average coach is not the answer, in fact, it's just about the worst thing that could happen. You should stick with Garrett and let him grow, or you should go out and pay for and import a genuine elite, team-builder head coach. Lovie Smith is not that.

On the other hand, Garrett (by your own admission) has struggled with game planning. He has been awful managing he clock, and getting plays in. He's struggling with coaching 101.

Every average coach will have things the fanbase hates and thinks are fatal flaws. Go check out a Bears message board and they will have a laundry list for Lovie. That's what happens when you miss the playoffs in 5 out of 6 years.

You just think the grass is greener because you aren't watching the Bears every week.

Why do you assume just because Lovie Smith took a team to the Super Bowl 6 years ago -- kind of a flukie appearance at that -- that he has the capabilities of doing it again?

I mean, can you verbalize what it is about his last 6 years that makes you think he's a good coach? I've heard "he dealt with a bad personnel situation in Chicago." Yeah... and he got to the playoffs 1/6. That is the same argument I'm making about Garrett.

 

[Carp]

Jesus.

Christ.

 

[Clay_Allison]

So you admit that it's not Jones' biggest mistake. That's good, because that would be a ridiculous thing to say.



I'm not being intentionally dishonest, you are not understanding what I'm saying. You yourself have many times made the argument "Well Parcells in the 2000s isn't the same coach he was in the 80's."

This is a variation of what I am saying about Lovie Smith. I don't care what he did in 2006 -- I do not believe he is capable of duplicating that effort at this point in his career. The evidence backs that up because he has been out of the playoffs for the past 6 seasons, except once.

If that's a dishonest argument, then you have been dishonest many times, so stop talking out of both sides of your mouth.



I don't see how that changes anything. One playoff appearance, one playoff win, WGAS? It's not good enough.

I like how, since you can't argue the facts, you have to resort to calling me a liar. That's cute.

As for Garrett not having one playoff appearance as a HC... well, the only way to give it an equal test would be to give Garrett 6 years.

I'm not interested in being exactly equal though, I don't care if Lovie Smith is two spots ahead of Garrett on the coaching ranks. I am speaking in generalities, and when I do so, I am saying, completely accurately, that Jason Garrett's 2 years of 8-8 are roughly the same quality of coaching job we've seen in the past 6 years of Lovie Smith in Chicago. As evidenced by the fact that Lovie Smith has been to the playoffs once in 6 years.

And even IF that one playoff appearance somehow made Lovie Smith the better coach -- it's still beside my point. My point is, zero playoff wins, one playoff win, zero playoff apperances, whatever. WHO GIVES A FUCK. Functionally, it's all the same.

Lovie Smith isn't going to come into Dallas and do a lick better than he did in his last 6 years in Chicago. That's the point. The performance Lovie Smith achieved in Chicago his past 6 seasons there would result in similar playoff success, ie, he will miss the playoff more often than he makes it, probably at a rate of about 1 in 6.

That performance is what you get when you have an average coach (like both Smith and Garrett are) saddled with a poor front office (as they each had in Chicago and Dallas).

Neither of these coaches are elite, franchise-changing coaches who could come in here and clean up this mess. Neither of these coaches are so bad that they are going to weigh the franchise down even further like Wade or Campo did.

They are just average. Maybe they get hot one year. Maybe they underachieve other years. The only thing for sure is that you won't get over the hump.

PS.... Garrett's offense was elite in 2007.

2006 and 1986 are two totally different things. You are seriously reaching. Parcells wasn't the same coach because he was in his late 60s and early 70s. He didn't have enough energy to coach as hard as he used to. Lovie Smith is still in his prime.

13th in scoring is not elite, it's 3 spots above average. Great offenses score points. Not surprising Garrett's best year he was leaning on Sparano, though.

 

[Smitty]

2006 and 1986 are two totally different things. You are seriously reaching. Parcells wasn't the same coach because he was in his late 60s and early 70s. He didn't have enough energy to coach as hard as he used to. Lovie Smith is still in his prime.

So a coach in his prime can't take a team to the playoffs more than 1 out of 6 years?

Sign me right up.

Regardless of how old he is, Lovie has not displayed the coaching ability to coach a flawed team to a deep playoff run in 6 seasons. That's not reaching... it's an analysis that a coach may not have the ability any more, for whatever reason, ie, that he's not the same coach anymore.

How many times would the guy have to miss the playoffs for you to think he's no longer a good coach? Serious question. 9 out of 10? Would that be enough to override one Super Bowl appearance?

13th in scoring is not elite, it's 3 spots above average. Great offenses score points. Not surprising Garrett's best year he was leaning on Sparano, though.

Sparano who has gone and taken the league by storm.

In any case, the bottom line is the same. Garrett has not been able to get this team over the hump by superior scheming in the face of personnel defects. Lovie Smith couldn't do the same in Chicago. The difference in performance in Garrett's two years versus Lovie's last 6 years has been minimal and not enough that we would have seen a difference in Lovie was in Dallas the past 2 seasons.

Maybe Lovie Smith magically recaptures the ability he had.... that one year... in 2006.... if he comes here. But recent trends say he won't. If we're getting a new coach make it a good one. Changing for the sake of change is exactly what Jerry does... always fall in love with a new flavor of the month.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Maybe Lovie Smith magically recaptures the ability he had.... that one year... in 2006.... if he comes here. But recent trends say he won't. If we're getting a new coach make it a good one. Changing for the sake of change is exactly what Jerry does... always fall in love with a new flavor of the month.

In 2006 he went to the superbowl with REX GROSSMAN at QB. In 2010 the Bears had one of the worst offenses in the NFL and still went to the NFC title game. Lovie has accomplished more with less in his career. I don't think it is debatable.

 

[NoDak]

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Lol

 

[Clay_Allison]

So a coach in his prime can't take a team to the playoffs more than 1 out of 6 years?

Sign me right up.

Regardless of how old he is, Lovie has not displayed the coaching ability to coach a flawed team to a deep playoff run in 6 seasons. That's not reaching... it's an analysis that a coach may not have the ability any more, for whatever reason, ie, that he's not the same coach anymore.

How many times would the guy have to miss the playoffs for you to think he's no longer a good coach? Serious question. 9 out of 10? Would that be enough to override one Super Bowl appearance?



Sparano who has gone and taken the league by storm.

In any case, the bottom line is the same. Garrett has not been able to get this team over the hump by superior scheming in the face of personnel defects. Lovie Smith couldn't do the same in Chicago. The difference in performance in Garrett's two years versus Lovie's last 6 years has been minimal and not enough that we would have seen a difference in Lovie was in Dallas the past 2 seasons.

Maybe Lovie Smith magically recaptures the ability he had.... that one year... in 2006.... if he comes here. But recent trends say he won't. If we're getting a new coach make it a good one. Changing for the sake of change is exactly what Jerry does... always fall in love with a new flavor of the month.

I'll take a defensive coach that produces great defenses at least half the time and has had offensive issues over an offensive coach who doesn't know what a dominant unit looks like on either side of the ball.

 

[boozeman]

Would his plans work if the OL was say, as good as the Giants OL? Or the Redskins?

I think yes.

You keep acting like he's some sort of innocent who is a victim of Jerry Jones' inability to assemble a decent offensive line.

He has been complicit with each and every move.

Garrett is the shithead that has basically been responsible for us drafting a back he couldn't use in Felix Jones and two second round picks on TEs within five years when you have the best in the game already on the roster.

He's also been onboard with the moves, or lack thereof, on the offensive line.

Sorry, he's partially responsible for his own upcoming demise.

 

[Clay_Allison]

You keep acting like he's some sort of innocent who is a victim of Jerry Jones' inability to assemble a decent offensive line.

He has been complicit with each and every move.

Garrett is the shithead that has basically been responsible for us drafting a back he couldn't use in Felix Jones and two second round picks on TEs within five years when you have the best in the game already on the roster.

He's also been onboard with the moves, or lack thereof, on the offensive line.

Sorry, he's partially responsible for his own upcoming demise.

I think he's also been on board with the idea that Romo's mobility negates the need to spend resources on the OL.

 

[Smitty]

I'll take a defensive coach that produces great defenses at least half the time and has had offensive issues over an offensive coach who doesn't know what a dominant unit looks like on either side of the ball.

Don't care what you'd prefer.

There is no way Lovie Smith's performance in Chicago in any of the past 6 years get this team, with these personnel flaws, markedly further than we've gotten.

 

[Smitty]

You keep acting like he's some sort of innocent who is a victim of Jerry Jones' inability to assemble a decent offensive line.

He has been complicit with each and every move.

Ok... so we need a legit GM/HC who can come in here and get the personnel right.

That's not Lovie Smith... as he demonstrated by his years of having flawed personnel in Chicago. So yet again, no evidence that any of these mediocre coaches in the same tier as Garrett would get us over the hump.

Garrett is the shithead that has basically been responsible for us drafting a back he couldn't use in Felix Jones and two second round picks on TEs within five years when you have the best in the game already on the roster.

No arguments there.

 

[boozeman]

Don't care what you'd prefer.

There is no way Lovie Smith's performance in Chicago in any of the past 6 years get this team, with these personnel flaws, markedly further than we've gotten.

So a team that creates more turnovers versus dicking around with two TE offenses Garrett can't figure out wouldn't get us a few more wins?

Bullshit.

 

[Smitty]

So a team that creates more turnovers versus dicking around with two TE offenses Garrett can't figure out wouldn't get us a few more wins?

Bullshit.

How many wins did that defense get for Chicago? Would one playoff appearance in 6 tries be correct?

 

[boozeman]

Ok... so we need a legit GM/HC who can come in here and get the personnel right.

You completely missed the point, as usual. Garrett has clearly been a responsible party in our draft direction for years. Jerry is inept. Pair him with a pass-happy arrogant head coach who outsmarts himself half the time, you have a recipe for disaster.

That's not Lovie Smith... as he demonstrated by his years of having flawed personnel in Chicago. So yet again, no evidence that any of these mediocre coaches in the same tier as Garrett would get us over the hump.

So now you admit Garrett is mediocre? That's a breakthrough I guess.

How many wins did that defense get for Chicago? Would one playoff appearance in 6 tries be correct?

That defense kept them afloat pretty much each season.

The issue with Smith was that he had little stroke in the organization and made disastrous choices for his offensive staff.

 

[Smitty]

You completely missed the point, as usual. Garrett has clearly been a responsible party in our draft direction for years. Jerry is inept. Pair him with a pass-happy arrogant head coach who outsmarts himself half the time, you have a recipe for disaster.

Well, if our GM would be smart enough to ignore his head coach, like a real GM should, then he'd wake the fuck up and get this team a real OL and the coach would then be much more successful.

I'm not missing the point. I've heard it a thousand times. That point is not relevant when evaluating Garrett on his actual coaching. If we're evaluating Garrett in his role as "GM-ass-coverer" since the real GM can't do the job, then yeah, Garrett fails in that regard. The solution is not to go out and hire another coach who can't direct personnel in Lovie Smith.

So now you admit Garrett is mediocre? That's a breakthrough I guess.

Wtf is this "now" shit? I've been saying Garrett is average for literally months.

Average like Lovie Smith's performance the past 6 seasons.

 

[boozeman]

I'm not missing the point. I've heard it a thousand times. That point is not relevant when evaluating Garrett on his actual coaching. If we're evaluating Garrett in his role as "GM-ass-coverer" since the real GM can't do the job, then yeah, Garrett fails in that regard. The solution is not to go out and hire another coach who can't direct personnel in Lovie Smith.

You ignore his "actual coaching". You neglect to acknowledge his supreme failure to manage games and refuse to admit he cannot prepare a team for a game on Sundays to the point we challenge anyone. Veteran coaches make him look foolish. Players openly have laughed at our offensive system and design for years.

There are a handful of games in his tenure where it actually appeared that we had a gameplan that fooled anyone. And even in those instances, we broke even in the W/L column because he fricked things up at the end. Case in point, Baltimore 2012.

Wtf is this "now" shit? I've been saying Garrett is average for literally months.

Average like Lovie Smith's performance the past 6 seasons.

Yeah, you've made it obvious you think he's mediocre.

I mean, who doesn't defend someone they think is average?