Sturm: Garrett Overview - 6 Years of Data

[Texas Ace]

I have said many times I would prefer an elite coach. But despite all the mindless mocking, there is not going to be much of a difference, if at all, in Garrett versus any of the middle tier coaches out there like Lovie Smith.

So I'm not interested in that at all. I'll stick with Garrett.

So consistently producing one of the NFL's best defenses while winning division titles, getting to two NFCC's and 1 Super Bowl is no better than Garrett?

Are you serious?

 

[Smitty]

So consistently producing one of the NFL's best defenses while winning division titles, getting to two NFCC's and 1 Super Bowl is no better than Garrett?

Are you serious?

See above.

 

[Smitty]

I'm not really interested in "ranking" the coaches and then saying how many are above and below Garrett exactly.

Garrett is not in the tier that brings his team down, like Wade Phillips is. Those guys are at the bottom.

Garrett is also not in the tier that I would have any faith in them elevating their team up -- guys like Reid, Belichick, Parcells, McCarthy, Payton, a handful of others.

He's somewhere in the middle tier. All would suffer the exact same fate these past 2 seasons with the personnel we had. So I don't want to change Garrett out for anyone in that grouping.

But then again, if I was the Bears, I wouldn't fire Lovie Smith to go get Garrett, or Marc F'n Trestman either, for that matter.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Garrett's over his head. He can't gameplan, make in game adjustments or motivate. And it's just getting worse as more and more of the talent we acquired under BP keeps leaving.

 

[NoDak]

They are not on the same tier in terms of past accomplishments, but going forward Lovie Smith would not get this team to perform better than Jason Garrett has.

You have nothing to base this on, other than trying to make excuses for Garrett. Enlighten us on how Smith would not get this team to perform any better than Garrett has, please. This should be good.

 

[Smitty]

You have nothing to base this on, other than trying to make excuses for Garrett. Enlighten us on how Smith would not get this team to perform any better than Garrett has, please.

In the last 6 years, the Chicago Bears made the playoffs once under Lovie Smith. That would be completely unacceptable in Dallas and if you give Garrett 4 more tries and fix the OL he will assuredly make the playoffs at least once.

This should be good.

Yep, that was pretty good. Garrett's missed the playoffs in 2 years and people think he sucks. He wouldn't get 6 chances in a row in Dallas; Lovie Smith would end up on the firing line with the quickness with the performance he mustered in the last more than half a decade.

Frankly, I do not believe Lovie Smith was ever a great coach even when his team went to the Super Bowl. They were atrocious offensively, and defensively they've always seemed opportunistic rather than dominant.

In any case, it's been years since Lovie Smith did anything special with the Bears. Which is why he was fired.

And the Bears will actually end up regretting it since Marc Trestman is almost assuredly worse. Which is something we should keep in mind.

 

[NoDak]

That still doesn't explain just why Garrett could get these players to perform, but Smith couldn't . But hey, keep on keepin' on. A Garrett/Schmitty bukkake thread...


NOW this board feels like home.

 

[Smitty]

That still doesn't explain just why Garrett could get these players to perform, but Smith couldn't.

I didn't say Garrett could get the players to perform but Smith couldn't.

I said there wouldn't be a difference. I expect Lovie Smith would get the players to perform about the same as Garrett does. He may or may not be a little better in one area or another -- probably not as good as Garrett coaching offense, but better at defense. But in terms of results, playoff appearances and wins, and Super Bowls.... I have no doubt with our GM you'd see the exact same result.... an unacceptably low number of all those things.

Lovie Smith is not the team building GM/coach we need. He's just another middle tier coach who would flounder here without the proper personnel support, like Gailey did and like Garrett is currently doing. I'm not interested in wasting any more time on a guy like that. Garrett sends a lot of the right messages, so until I find an elite GM/coach I can get in here, I'm not going to fire him just to hop on the coaching carousel to end up with another average coach.

Besides, Garrett can be fired at any time if an elite coach becomes available. You bring in a Lovie Smith and you just gave yourself a 2-4 year window where you basically have closed off all your upgrade options, cause you'll look stupid if you just fire him after a year.

 

[Carp]

Still...no real criticism of Garrett, just more excuses why he can't succeed. If he is this super smart guy, then I just have to wonder why he turned down the Ravens and a chance to work with a world class front office.

 

[Smitty]

Still...no real criticism of Garrett, just more excuses why he can't succeed.

No average coach can succeed with the personnel situation here. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. The point that seems lost is that everyone has this idea that Lovie Smith will come in here and be better. He won't.

If he is this super smart guy, then I just have to wonder why he turned down the Ravens and a chance to work with a world class front office.

I am sure that the Cowboys were his dream job and he thought he could work with Jerry.

 

[Smitty]

l'll say this.... so as to disprove the sure-to-be-suggested-notion that I'm only saying that certain unavailable coaches are the "elite ones" and therefore anybody I want simply can't be had....

... I would fire Garrett for Rex Ryan once this season is over, if Ryan gets canned.

 

[BipolarFuk]

Rex Ryan?

Um, no.

 

[NoDak]

The point that seems lost is that everyone has this idea that Lovie Smith will come in here and be better. He won't.

The point that you can't seem to grasp is there is no possible way for you to know this. Yet, you continue to shout it as a fact. Sure, you have just as much right as anyone to speculate as how you would see something turning out. But don't claim it as fact and come off as some pompous ass who thinks everyone around you is stupid and will just accept what you're saying as gospel. There are places that will work. This isn't one of them.

 

[Deuce]

I think Lovie can come in and be better for sure. He only worries himself with one side of the ball like Garrett, but at least he built a dominant unit in Chicago which carried his team to a Super Bowl. Garrett hasn't and won't do that.

 

[Carp]

Lovie has the ability to lead men...Garrett has the ability to smile awkwardly.

 

[Smitty]

The point that you can't seem to grasp is there is no possible way for you to know this. Yet, you continue to shout it as a fact. Sure, you have just as much right as anyone to speculate as how you would see something turning out. But don't claim it as fact and come off as some pompous ass who thinks everyone around you is stupid and will just accept what you're saying as gospel. There are places that will work. This isn't one of them.

Well just as soon as everyone else says that there is no possible way for them to know that Garrett ISN'T better than Lovie Smith, I'll do the same. They don't know it any more certainly than I do yet they seem to be saying things in absolutes.

But yes, obviously I do not possess a magic crystal ball. It is my take that Lovie Smith, he of 1 playoff appearance in the past 6 seasons, has not done a better coaching job with his team in any of those 6 seasons, given the talent level on those teams, than Garrett has in any of his 2 seasons in Dallas, given the talent level on our teams. Lovie Smith has been a mediocre coach for the better part of a decade now, unable to scheme his way past personnel deficiencies much the same way Garrett is accused of.

If you think there is a difference in each team's struggle to get over .500, I submit to you that it's because you are judging the Cowboys harder because of your affinity for them. If you watched Lovie Smith every week, you would find similar "fatal flaws" that he displays over the past 6 seasons, as those flaws always rear their heads when a team is no better than 7-9 to 9-7 consistently. And I highly suspect as soon as he came here they would be exacerbated under an even more disfunctional ownership situation.

 

[Carp]

Smith has produced at a higher level than Garrett has as a HC. He took a team to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as his QB.

 

[Texas Ace]

Well just as soon as everyone else says that there is no possible way for them to know that Garrett ISN'T better than Lovie Smith, I'll do the same. They don't know it any more certainly than I do yet they seem to be saying things in absolutes.

 

[Smitty]

Smith has produced at a higher level than Garrett has as a HC. He took a team to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman as his QB.

Sure.

In 2006. I don't think Lovie Smith has done a job to replicate that effort since that season.

 

[Carp]

I must be bored...I feel like this board has had this very same conversation with Schmitty countless times.