Archer: Higher hopes for Cowboys' Crawford

[Rev]

He was a first round run stopper that rarely made an impactful play. A JAG. What he provided could have been given by a mid to late rounder.

He wasn't a bust on the level of a Bobby Carpenter, but a bust just the same because of his pedigree and draft position.

Exactly and to argue otherwise is just what Smitty does.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Saying he sucked doesn't make it so. He was actually solid against the run, particularly earlier in his career.

So he was like a minus, minus, minus starter on your rating system then?

 

[Smitty]

So he was like a minus, minus, minus starter on your rating system then?

Spears was solid for what he was asked to do, which was be a run stuffer and block eater and not rush the passer.

Selvie's job is to rush the passer and stop the run on the strong side and he does neither of those things particularly well. He's a situational player, not a starter.

 

[Texas Ace]

Spears was solid for what he was asked to do, which was be a run stuffer and block eater and not rush the passer.

Which would have been ok had he been a 4th round pick, but he was a 1st round pick.

 

[NoDak]

For what he was asked to do.



God damn. We purposely used a first round draft pick on a f'n blocker magnet.

 

[Smitty]

Which would have been ok had he been a 4th round pick, but he was a 1st round pick.

You can say that about a lot of players. It would have been nice if Terence Newman was a 2nd or 3rd round pick too, and not 5th overall. It would have been nice if Greg Ellis was selected at 30 and not 8. It would have been nice if we didn't use the first overall pick on Russell Maryland, who was a good player but saw heavy rotation here and was never a dynamite pass rusher either.

That doesn't make them busts.

Spears was overdrafted, but Carpenter is a bust. Felix Jones is borderline bust. Shante Carver is a bust. Dwayne Goodrich is a bust.

Nobody is saying you should go into selecting 20th saying "Man I hope I land another Marcus Spears" but the reality of drafting at that spot is that you could do way worse than getting a 7 year blocker magnet for a 3-4 defense with that pick.

 

[Bob Roberts]

He defends Spears because he was Percells' favorite player in that draft, that's all.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

He defends Spears because he was Percells' favorite player in that draft, that's all.

Like I said, if Selvie was a 26 year old former first round pick of Parcells we would be hearing about how great he is as a run defender and strong side DE. Funny thing is Selvie basically put together a Greg Ellis like season but that is now what Schmizzle is terming a minus season.

Yet a guy who got no sacks, tackles, or any stats to speak of in Spears, was a "solid run defender."

 

[ravidubey]

Spears was solid for what he was asked to do, which was be a run stuffer and block eater and not rush the passer.

Selvie's job is to rush the passer and stop the run on the strong side and he does neither of those things particularly well. He's a situational player, not a starter.

By being drafted in the 1st round Spears was asked to be a foundational player vs. both the pass and run, not a mere run stuffer and block-eater. Brandon Noble could have done that. First round picks must define the identity of your team. That meant Spears needed to generate pressure by forcing his guys into the backfield, not be driven backwards most of the time, and play every down. Spears did none of those things. Spears was one of the first to throw Parcells under a bus after he retired, and that's a major red flag IMO.

RE: Selvie, completely true.

 

[Smitty]

By being drafted in the 1st round Spears was asked to be a foundational player vs. both the pass and run, not a mere run stuffer and block-eater. Brandon Noble could have done that. First round picks must define the identity of your team.

I'm agreeing that he wasn't worth the pick he was selected with, while differentiating between that and outright bust.

RE: Selvie, completely true.

Yep.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

I'm agreeing that he wasn't worth the pick he was selected with, while differentiating between that and outright bust.

Being a bust or not has everything to do with draft position. Your argument still makes zero sense. By your logic since using a sixth round pick on a career backup QB is a solid pick, then taking a career backup QB with the first overall pick would not be a bust.

 

[Smitty]

Being a bust or not has everything to do with draft position. Your argument still makes zero sense. By your logic since using a sixth round pick on a career backup QB is a solid pick, then taking a career backup QB with the first overall pick would not be a bust.

There are many players drafted over the years who didn't live up to their draft selection spot who I wouldn't consider busts. Russell Maryland is a prime example that I named earlier. Guy never had more than 4 sacks in a year. Went first overall, even.

Was not a bust. But just not worth that selection spot if you are gonna redraft that class.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

There are many players drafted over the years who didn't live up to their draft selection spot who I wouldn't consider busts. Russell Maryland is a prime example that I named earlier. Guy never had more than 4 sacks in a year. Went first overall, even.

Was not a bust. But just not worth that selection spot if you are gonna redraft that class.

Actually Russell Maryland did have more then 4 sacks in a season... He also proved that he was good enough to start long term on more then one team.

Spears on the other hand maxed out at 2.5 sacks in a season (Wow that is god awful). Never had the tackles against the run that Selvie had last year (Spears was so overrated against the run it's not even funny). And proved that he wasn't starting caliber anywhere else in the NFL. Just because dumbass Jerry started him for all those years hardly makes him not a bust. Spears is a guy who was a situational player at best anywhere else in the NFL. Shit Kenyon Coeman had a better career then Spears.

 

[Smitty]

Actually Russell Maryland did have more then 4 sacks in a season

Sorry, never had more than 4.5, wow.... he's a stud. My bad.

As a first overall pick.

What were you saying about "Where you are drafted matters"? So you think that 4.5 sacks in a year for the first overall pick is fine, but 2.5 sacks a year for the 20th pick makes you a bust? Do go on....

He also proved that he was good enough to start long term on more then one team.

How'd he do that? By signing with a second team? By starting for 9 years? Cause I have news for you....

(Spears was so overrated against the run it's not even funny). And proved that he wasn't starting caliber anywhere else in the NFL. Just because dumbass Jerry started him for all those years hardly makes him not a bust. Spears is a guy who was a situational player at best anywhere else in the NFL. Shit Kenyon Coeman had a better career then Spears.

You have nothing to back any of this up other than your own opinion. The guy started for quite some time and I'll actually take Bill Parcells' opinion over yours on this subject, and what I saw myself, which is that he was solid against the run. Whether that makes him a bust or not is a different debate, but I'm done with this revisionist nonsense about him sucking at everything yet starting for 7 years straight for two different defensive-minded coaches.

Maybe we can get back to the relevant discussion, which is, whether Selvie is a good starter or not, without you rehashing 5 year old debates that have literally zero bearing on the current subject.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Maybe we can get back to the relevant discussion, which is, whether Selvie is a good starter or not, without you rehashing 5 year old debates that have literally zero bearing on the current subject.

That's fine. Name me 15 starting NFL left ends with significant better numbers then 7 sacks and 45 tackles last year I bet you can't. Julius Peppers had that type of season last year. If you can't then the man is an average starter. Not this desperate to be replaced player you like to portray.

 

[Clay_Allison]

That's fine. Name me 15 starting NFL left ends with significant better numbers then 7 sacks and 45 tackles last year I bet you can't. Julius Peppers had that type of season last year. If you can't then the man is an average starter. Not this desperate to be replaced player you like to portray.

You're missing that his numbers tailed off badly later in the year. And you can't tell me he drew the same kind of blocking as Julius Peppers. Even judging from those numbers there is NO telling whether he can duplicate them.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

You're missing that his numbers tailed off badly later in the year. And you can't tell me he drew the same kind of blocking as Julius Peppers. Even judging from those numbers there is NO telling whether he can duplicate them.

They did tail off, everyone's did. Hatcher's tailed off too. Maybe guys got nicked up. Maybe he wore down as the season went on. We didn't exactly have the depth to rotate in at end to keep guys fresh. Hell sometimes when the rest of your D-line blows teams start rolling plays away from you. It's not like Ware was doing his job on the opposite side.

Just because Selvie is cheap and cost nothing to acquire, doesn't mean he can't be a average starter. You just need to have a couple studs to go with the average player. That's something we don't have yet.

 

[Cowboysrock55]

Also Selvie is only 26, maybe he is just starting to hit his stride.

 

[Simpleton]

Sometimes you see guys who bounce around and once they find the right scheme they turn into a very good player, that is a possibility with Selvie. I don't want to bank on it or anything and ignore addressing the position but it is a possibility.

 

[Smitty]

You're missing that his numbers tailed off badly later in the year. And you can't tell me he drew the same kind of blocking as Julius Peppers. Even judging from those numbers there is NO telling whether he can duplicate them.

He's also missing that aside from the 7 sacks, Selvie was largely invisible, egregiously so down the stretch. He was a complete non-factor.

To me, it screams of unexpected success before teams started paying attention.

There is no way anyone in their right mind would deliberately pencil that guy in as a starter after the performance our DL turned in last year. Hell, you wouldn't pencil in Ware, even, based on his play, if it weren't for his other years of dominance and the hope he returns to form.

The only reason Selvie stays in the starting lineup is because we get rid of Ware and can't replace BOTH ends in one offseason. I would feel that, busts aside, any DE we drafted in the first 3, maybe 4 rounds would be an overall upgrade fairly quickly into their rookie year.