2024 POTUS Thread...

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Chocolate Lab

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Even the left's elderly are unhinged.
In all seriousness, you wonder how the horrific things that past governments have done to mass numbers of people can happen, and then you see stuff like this.

Those unthinkable atrocities happen not just because enough people simply allow them to happen, but actually want them to happen.
 

Genghis Khan

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In all seriousness, you wonder how the horrific things that past governments have done to mass numbers of people can happen, and then you see stuff like this.

Those unthinkable atrocities happen not just because enough people simply allow them to happen, but actually want them to happen.

Yep. You convince yourself that "those" people are dangerous, and you can justify quite a lot.
 

Cotton

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I'm old enough to remember when you found out the winner on election night. WTF is going on?
 

Chocolate Lab

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wtf is up with this county? This is fucking ridiculous.
France has almost 70 million people and does all paper ballots and they know that night.

Arizona has 7 million people and it takes over a week.

And last election, they had the "wrong sized paper" to fit in the tabulators at too many locations on election day.

It's absolute bullshit.
 

Smitty

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What are you seeing that makes you believe that? I’m curious.

He’s leading there in the RCP battleground average.
The trends and more reliable polls are swinging to her. His tiny lead in NC on RCP is based on polls that are older.
 

Chocolate Lab

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The trends and more reliable polls are swinging to her. His tiny lead in NC on RCP is based on polls that are older.
The trends are swinging to her? Where do you see that? What about the betting markets that are totally unbiased?

The biggest thing is, he's far, FAR ahead of where he's ever been in the polls at this point, once when he won and once when he lost by 44k votes.
 

UncleMilti

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I'm old enough to remember when you found out the winner on election night. WTF is going on?
There’s no way that should be allowed to happen. The feds should step in and do something about it.
 

Smitty

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The trends are swinging to her? Where do you see that? What about the betting markets that are totally unbiased?

The biggest thing is, he's far, FAR ahead of where he's ever been in the polls at this point, once when he won and once when he lost by 44k votes.
The last 5 polls are 3 for her, 1 for him, and 1 tie. Any lead he had here has completely evaporated in recent weeks. The betting markets don't say anything specifically about NC and are influenced by people betting money, not any actual data on polling. Betting markets could just be a couple foolish whales that are throwing away money.

On top of that, NC has been flooded with transplants from the west coast and the northeast in recent years. It has gotten way worse since the last election in 2020 after Covid hit and people all started working from home, they relocated from mega expensive urban areas to the NC suburbs. I'm reading between the lines that an already close electorate may be way more skewed than last time.

On top of THAT, the western region of the state was basically knocked offline by the Hurricane. You can't count on those rural votes being able to get to the voting locations.

On top of THAT, the governor election here is a shitshow, the Republican nominee is a clown and I suspect Trump's association with him is actually weighing Trump down.

Next, I do agree that in 2016 and 2020 he outperformed the polls, but the amount he outperformed them decreased from 2016 to 2020, and then from 2020 to 2022, the Democrats actually outperformed the polls. Trump wasn't on the ballot at midterms in 2022 but the Red Wave that polls were predicting fell flat. It's possible that the polls aren't off nearly as much as last time.

Finally, Atlas is one of the most reliable polls and they have her up 2.

I think he loses NC.

He has a path to win but losing NC makes it a good bit harder and less certain. He has to win Michigan and Arizona and PA now.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I don't know what to say to all that. I don't know NC in particular, but I do know that the western areas devastated by the hurricane have had incredible turnout already.

The betting markets aren't just a couple of whales. There aren't whales big enough for his lead to steadily increase over the last couple of weeks to the point it has now. Polls are far, far more likely to be biased than people betting their own money.

Now could they cheat and steal it? Absolutely. But he's well ahead of her with actual people. That's clear in the last few weeks.
 

UncleMilti

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The trends and more reliable polls are swinging to her. His tiny lead in NC on RCP is based on polls that are older.
Not sure what polls you are looking at Smitty, but the RCP avgs I see have Trump up or tied in every swing state. And really, it’s more important to look at the most recent polls to see where they are trending. He’s up 2 in NC, 3 in PA, 4 in GA, 2 in MI, tied to +2 in WI. He’s been trending up, and most polling gurus are pointing to the next round of polling to set the stage for Election Day. Every pollster has pointed to Kamala’s sinking ship and say internal polling has her down 4-5 in every swing. We will see I guess.
 

UncleMilti

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The trends are swinging to her? Where do you see that? What about the betting markets that are totally unbiased?

The biggest thing is, he's far, FAR ahead of where he's ever been in the polls at this point, once when he won and once when he lost by 44k votes.
I don’t see what Smitty sees either. I just looked at RCP and he’s up. You can’t go by the average….thats giving her credit for the bump she got when she kicked out Dementia Joe. The last 25-30 days she has lost all momentum and Trump has slowly surged to the top.
 

UncleMilti

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It’s also very important to look at the TDIH, which shows the polling in 2020 and 2016. Trump is WAY ahead of where he was in both those elections in numbers. Biden was up 9 in a few states and ended up winning by only .01 percentage points in one state, .03 in another. If they are at worst tied, Trump still wins most likely because the unheard and unseen Trump voters are out there and show up on Election Day. Also the polling Dates are important because most of the data is gathered 7-14 days before it’s published.
 

Genghis Khan

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The last 5 polls are 3 for her, 1 for him, and 1 tie. Any lead he had here has completely evaporated in recent weeks. The betting markets don't say anything specifically about NC and are influenced by people betting money, not any actual data on polling. Betting markets could just be a couple foolish whales that are throwing away money.

On top of that, NC has been flooded with transplants from the west coast and the northeast in recent years. It has gotten way worse since the last election in 2020 after Covid hit and people all started working from home, they relocated from mega expensive urban areas to the NC suburbs. I'm reading between the lines that an already close electorate may be way more skewed than last time.

On top of THAT, the western region of the state was basically knocked offline by the Hurricane. You can't count on those rural votes being able to get to the voting locations.

On top of THAT, the governor election here is a shitshow, the Republican nominee is a clown and I suspect Trump's association with him is actually weighing Trump down.

Next, I do agree that in 2016 and 2020 he outperformed the polls, but the amount he outperformed them decreased from 2016 to 2020, and then from 2020 to 2022, the Democrats actually outperformed the polls. Trump wasn't on the ballot at midterms in 2022 but the Red Wave that polls were predicting fell flat. It's possible that the polls aren't off nearly as much as last time.

Finally, Atlas is one of the most reliable polls and they have her up 2.

I think he loses NC.

He has a path to win but losing NC makes it a good bit harder and less certain. He has to win Michigan and Arizona and PA now.

You're harshing my buzz.
 

Smitty

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Not sure what polls you are looking at Smitty, but the RCP avgs I see have Trump up or tied in every swing state. And really, it’s more important to look at the most recent polls to see where they are trending. He’s up 2 in NC, 3 in PA, 4 in GA, 2 in MI, tied to +2 in WI. He’s been trending up, and most polling gurus are pointing to the next round of polling to set the stage for Election Day. Every pollster has pointed to Kamala’s sinking ship and say internal polling has her down 4-5 in every swing. We will see I guess.
Look at the last 5 polls in NC.

His lead is 0.4, not 2.... and the 0.4 lead is buoyed by the stuff from September.

The last 5 polls in NC are her leading in 3, one of them tied, one of them him.

And one of the ones that has her leading is Atlas.

Am I wrong?
 

Smitty

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It’s also very important to look at the TDIH, which shows the polling in 2020 and 2016. Trump is WAY ahead of where he was in both those elections in numbers. Biden was up 9 in a few states and ended up winning by only .01 percentage points in one state, .03 in another. If they are at worst tied, Trump still wins most likely because the unheard and unseen Trump voters are out there and show up on Election Day. Also the polling Dates are important because most of the data is gathered 7-14 days before it’s published.
If 2016 and 2020 trends of Republicans overperforming versus polls holds, yes, we have nothing to worry about.

The problem is that many of the pollsters say they've taken steps to correct those flaws, and in 2022, Republicans actually underperformed.

If they underperform again like in 2022, he easily could lose.
 

Cowboysrock55

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If 2016 and 2020 trends of Republicans overperforming versus polls holds, yes, we have nothing to worry about.

The problem is that many of the pollsters say they've taken steps to correct those flaws, and in 2022, Republicans actually underperformed.

If they underperform again like in 2022, he easily could lose.
I think polls are different when talking about Trump specifically. But I have no idea what steps they have taken to adjust for previous error.

I don't think this is a Republican in polls issue. It's a Trump specific issue and I don't know that midterms give any indication of accuracy.

Let's face it, supporting Trump gets really hatefilled reactions. I'm sure a lot of people who will vote for Trump are distrusting and don't want to do a poll or survey. Harris on the other hand, saying you will vote for her basically gets no negative reaction. You love women, you love blacks, you love whatever race she is pretending to be at the moment, you're just considered a good person.

Hell I won't even tell my friends I'm voting for Trump. You think I'd respond to a poll accurately?
 
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